Very Few Christians Lead Public Life: Why? | Bracey Fuenzalida

Episode Summary: 

In the United States and in many nations around the world, Christians make up a large percentage of the population. Yet despite our numbers, the broader culture is often shaped far more by other ideas, values, and worldviews than by a distinctly biblical vision of life.

What is missing in Christian discipleship that keeps the Gospel from shaping not only personal faith, but the broader culture?

This week, we talk with Bracey Fuenzalida of the Falls Church Fellows Program and one of the fellows, Isabelle Souza, to explore why believers are often absent from society’s most influential institutions, and how deep discipleship can and should change that.

From communism in Chile to secular universities in Brazil, Bracey and Belle share how worldview, vocation, and intentional Christian formation shape leaders for government, business, media, education, and the arts. We explore why escapist Christianity has caused many believers to retreat from public life, and why recovering an optimistic vision of redemption changes how Christians approach work, leadership, and culture. If every sphere of life belongs to Christ, then every vocation becomes sacred ground for discipleship, creativity, stewardship, and restoration. Join us!

Who is Disciple Nations Alliance (DNA)? Since 1997, DNA’s mission has been to equip followers of Jesus around the globe with a biblical worldview, empowering them to build flourishing families, communities, and nations. 👉 https://disciplenations.org/

🎙️Featured Speaker: 

Bracey Fuenzalida leads the Falls Church Fellows Program, shaping its vision and strategy to equip recent college graduates to become thoughtful, faithful, and influential leaders. With a 35-year career spanning entrepreneurship, coaching, business strategy, and theological study, Bracey is driven by a passion for creativity, human growth, and purposeful leadership. His academic background—from Mathematics and Architecture to History and Theology —grounds his holistic, people-centered approach to preparing the next generation of Christian leaders to make meaningful impact in the marketplace, the church, and society.

Across the public and private sectors, as well as in higher education, he has served as an owner, director, and enterprise strategist—guiding teams through complex challenges with clarity and a deeply relational leadership style. Known for turning ambiguity into alignment, he has built companies from the ground up, reshaped business channels, and led teams around the world. His work blends technical excellence with a commitment to helping people thrive and enabling organizations to reach their full potential. 

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     👉 FELLOWS PROGRAM: The Falls Church Fellows | DC Fellowships &  Leadership 

     👉 Book: Discipling Nations - Disciple Nations Alliance 

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Episode Webpage

Transcript

Cold Open And Welcome

Scott Allen 0:00

Okay, Dad, whenever you're ready. All right, great. Let's get started. Well, we're so excited today on the podcast to have uh two uh close friends now, I would say, of the DNA uh that we've gotten to over the last couple of years. Uh Bracie Fuenza Fuenzalita. Bracie, did I get that right? Fuenzalita. Oh man, I'm so happy about that. I got a little coaching from Belly earlier this morning. You were practicing, yeah. I was I was trying, I was trying. That for our listeners, that is uh a name that comes from the beautiful country of Chile, and we're gonna talk a little bit more about Bracy's background. And um Isabel uh Souza uh is also joining us. Isabel is part of our team who um has come out of the program that uh Bracy leads at Falls Church Anglican. We're going to talk about this really powerful program and wonderful church. Um and uh that's gonna be the focus of our podcast today. But uh Belly's a graduate of that program and now is working with the DNA in Brazil um and just helping us in a whole variety of ways. Belly, it's great to have you on as well. And Bracy, you too.

Isabelle Souza 1:12

Thank you so much, Scott. I'm honored and very excited.

Scott Allen 1:16

Well, it is the honor is all ours, that's for sure. Let me let me start with uh introducing Bracy a little bit, and then Bracy, we want to I just want to hear more of your story because it's a fascinating story. I had the privilege of um uh visiting Brace in his office um about two weeks ago, and we had such a great, I was so encouraged by the discussion we had. Um Bracy is Bracey uh leads the Falls Church Fellows program. We'll hear more about that. Um he helps to shape its vision and its strategy. And the program equips recent college graduates from around the country, really the cream of the crop, I would say, Brace, I think that you would agree. I mean, people that are really top-notch, you know, in terms of their potential

Why Evangelicals Lack Elite Influence

Scott Allen 2:05

and uh trying to shape them to be thoughtful, faithful, and influential leaders. And we're gonna be talking about that. Um I know that uh um there's been quite a bit of of talk of late. I mean, it's not a new subject, but um Aaron Wren, I think, of late has been uh writing articles and raising the question of why is it that in the United States at least, and I I would say this is true of countries around the world, uh you have uh often a very large percent of the population who are Bible-believing evangelical Christians, they're saved. And yet, when we look at institutions that are shaping the culture, um the big ones, you know, that like media, um uh entertainment, um finance, law, these big areas. I mean, you could just take the Supreme Court of the United States as an example of this. Uh right now there's not a single Bible-believing evangelical uh on the Supreme Court, and that's just one example. We could cite many others. Again, it's strange because of the of the relative size of the group that we're we're we we that we represent in our countries. And if we care about you know uh discipling nations and seeing cultures really shaped in powerful ways by the powerful truths of the Bible, uh this is a concern, this is a problem. If if we're not, as we say often at the DNA, if we're not shaping the culture, somebody else is going to, uh it's going to be shaped, there's gonna be elites, right? They're gonna exist. Um it's just a matter of who they are and what they believe. And right now in the West, in the United States, largely um it's non-Christians, people that are actually hostile to Christianity, operating from very unbiblical worldviews, uh pagan, uh neo-Marxist worldviews. So this is a problem, uh, and I think it's kind of a failure of the church. I know Bracy, it's one that you care about and are trying to address. I mean, I think it's really at the heart of the program here. A little bit more about Bracy. He has a background in entrepreneurship, coaching, business strategy, theological study. Uh he has a passion for creativity, for human growth, and for purposeful leadership. Uh he has a academic background in mathematics and architecture, very interesting background there. Uh history and theology. Uh he what uh you worked on at Wall on Wall Street for a while, didn't you, Bracey? For a while, right? Comes from New York City.

Speaker 1 4:41

Yes.

Scott Allen 4:43

25 years on Wall Street, even living in New York City, but you told me when we were together that you um it was your your your parents that were the immigrants from Chile, um, and you came to the United States with them when you were young, essentially, right? Yeah. 10 years old. Okay. So you're seven years old. So you've lived most of your life in the United States, but yeah, seven years in Chile, I mean, that you that makes you Chilean, right? You know, I mean that's a big part of your background as well. So I think so. Yeah, absolutely. Well, Bracie, I would I want to talk about the fellows program at Falls Church. I want to talk a little bit about Falls Church itself. The church itself is a fascinating church. Um but before we do that, I just want to hear, as as the leader of this program, I would love to just have you tell us your story a little bit, uh, who you are, what drives you, what brought you to the what brought your parents to the United States. You can talk uh as

Bracy’s Chile Story Under Communism

Scott Allen 5:40

as much as you'd like. Um so I just would like to turn it over to you at this point.

Luke Allen 5:44

Great. I'll I'll try I'll try to be brief with this. Hopefully you guys can just chime in. Um I was born in 1972, and to give you an idea of where that was in the context and history of Chile, in 1970, Chile, by virtue of the way its politics runs, had elected for the first time in its history a communist president. His name was Salvador Allende, that he came to power in 1970, but he only came to power with 30% of the of the vote. The other percentage of the vote, which is about 70%, um they had they were of the right and the center-right political parties. And by virtue of what's in within the constitution, you had to form a coalition government in order to rule, in order to to, and they couldn't do that. And the tragedy of that is that they don't, I don't think the Chileans realize to the extent that Allende had in his mind to transform the country and to make it into the spitting image of another Latin American Cuba in the Caribbean in Cuba.

Scott Allen 6:55

That's right.

Luke Allen 6:56

Um, and so whether it was the influence of the Russians at the time or the Cubans, the Angolans, the West Germans, and so forth, you saw in 1970, 1973, the telltale signs of everything that happens in a totalitarian state, confiscation of property, the nationalizing of all private property, of industry. Um with when you change the economic system in such a degree, you also end up getting high inflation. Um and you you people were being persecuted socially and culturally because they they this transformation was they wanted this thing to be so thorough that in the midst of this um it it caused societal chaos. And in the midst of that, you had my father and my mother, my mother who was born in the south of Chile in a very agrari uh agricultural, agrarian, if you would, um, setting. She meets my father, who is a city boy from Valparaíso, and my father and his brothers you know they set up a small little business to run taxi cabs out of a stand, and the next thing you know out of that you're buying a private bus and you get two and so forth. But to people in Chile, that's that's a decent-sized business that provides life. Um, but when the government comes to take that, all of a sudden you have to realize what are you doing? In the midst of this, my brother and I are born in 72 and in 73. Um, I often sometimes wonder to myself, what were my mom and my dad thinking that we were born in the middle of a communist revolution? Um so within that, my father began actively to oppose the government. And he became Chile is divided into 15 regions, if you would, 15 states. The fifth region is the one that has the capital, Bangparaíso and Viña Melmar, two a port city and a tourist city. And so my father was in charge of a lot of the truckers and the transportation who would um who was responsible for bringing the foods to all your local um supermarkets and stores and things of that nature. And when the edict came out of the government, they said, We want you to bring this to the government storehouses, he defied them. Wow, and very quickly, my father was um known not only as being defiant to the government but an enemy of the state. And that brought about the repercussion that, hey, we're going after you. And the the country at the time appealed to um the military for them to intervene, and the military held uh demonstrated great restraint by not intervening. Um, and of course, uh they did so until the very end when the United States, I didn't know this at the time, obviously I know I know this now subsequently since coming to the US, you learn of the history of what the US and its involvement was. The United States did not want uh communism in the southern cone of um South America because strategically and militarily that was going to pose a humongous challenge, um, and especially with the resources that Chile has with and mining.

Scott Allen 10:14

Um, yeah, Chile is just one of the most important countries in in South America, in all of Latin America. And this is, you're right, Brace, this is the height of the Cold War, and everything is kind of it's this bipolar world between the United States and and the Soviet Union at that time. And uh this is the peak of the Cold War, and you had countries in South America that were kind of falling, like the dominoes, right? You had Peru and Bolivia and not not only Cuba and then Chile, and so this was a concern. That's right, yeah. Yeah, it was a big concern. And oh you don't know this when you're on the ground, right? Yeah, of course. Um but any help that the country could get is welcomed. And so um by the by June and July of 1973, the newspapers, which are traditionally leftist-oriented in terms of its socio-political thinking, they were calling for the communist government to resign and to leave power because so much societal chaos had come upon the country. My fa excuse me, my father had received multiple death threats and so forth, and and you had to choose what you were gonna do. Well, by September of that year, um the Chilean government, aided by the the CIA of the United States, they helped to lead a coup against the communist government, and the communist government was toppled. And what originally was supposed to happen is on the 18th of September, which was uh which is National Independence Day in Chile, the communist government, um, just simply because uh one of the things that they do in Chile is they have these big marches with the military to demonstrate pride and so forth, they were gonna decapitate the Chilean government on the 18th. But it turned out it was uh just eight days earlier on the 11th of September of 1973, the Allende government, excuse me, the Pinochet uh military led a coup against Allende, and they said to him, You can either leave alive or you're gonna you're gonna be dead. And he he was on the radio, as my mother says, uh Chileans get out with your swords, with your sticks, and there'll be blood all over Chile if we are removed from power. And so she remembers that vividly. I I don't, obviously, she, you know, both my parents tell me this, but they have the newspapers. Um, Chile was liberated on that day. Um, months later, it came out in the newspapers. Um, they had printed all the names of the people who were to be marked for death for aiding the military. And of course, um my parents' name comes out in the newspaper. And um, so they my mother to this day still has that. My mother to this day, she has a little ration card to get food for a month, just like they do in Cuba. Um, and I wish I could make up this story and or tell you that I'm embellishing, but this was common, this was known to a lot of Chileans, and so uh it was out of that that my father said that despite that brutal and horrific um, if you would, um coup, uh, or we were on the verge of um civilizational collapse in Chile and going into a civil war, he always believed that the communists would come back because for whatever reason, communism as a religion, right? And that's what that's what it is. Communism is a religion, it's a religion of revolution. It never dies, it never dies off. It always wants to come back. And he thought that one day it would come back to Chile. He said, the only place in the world that I know that has freedom and liberty, and they exercise it, and they try to make their country flourish as a result of it, is the United States. And so I think by 1974, 1975, he began applying for a visa to come to the US. And he was able to do that in 77. And then my brother, my um and my mother and I, uh, we came to the US in 1979. Well, you know, there's so much to talk about there. I mean, one one thing that I learned from you, Bracey, is that when we think when I think of um this history of Chile, um, I my my own thinking of this has been shaped by Western media. And you mentioned Augusto Pinochet, and when when we hear his name, we immediately associate him with a bloody tyranny. He was a wicked, evil man. You know, that's that's what we understand. That's what I grew up understanding.

Pinochet And The Power Of Narratives

Scott Allen 14:55

Uh he was the one that the CIA, American CIA, had backed to overthrow the communist. And I know that history isn't neat and tidy, this guy's good, this guy's bad, right? You know, it's n it's not quite that way. But um but you were the one who told me when we talked about how that was largely, even though Pinochet certainly wasn't a great guy in some respects, he he did leave behind a legacy of an economically flourishing Chile. You know, for a while it was the it was the light, the economic light of Latin America. Um and you said that largely this um narrative that has grown up around him uh is false. Maybe you want to explain a little bit of that, because I I thought that was pretty interesting.

Bracey Fuenzalida 15:40

Yeah, what what amazes me here is that when you when in the United States, um a lot of our understanding of quote-unquote um international history or what happens abroad is always in in many respects taught to us through the lens of what the media teaches you. Right. And how they cover the news and the assumptions that they purport to the entire uh population of the United States. And um I remember I think it was the the it was Malcolm X in the 60s who said that uh the media has the power to build you up or take you down in a split second, and it does. It has that same power also to make you understand and believe history. Yeah. Um, and and it has a strong, strong power to frame that.

Speaker 4 16:30

Yeah.

Bracey Fuenzalida 16:31

Um, when you think about Augusto Pinochet, right, and they're calling him the next Hitler, they're calling him uh a fascist dictator and so forth. Is he responsible for killing people? Yeah, about 3,500 people died. He was brutal against uh the communists who wanted to destroy the um the gu the uh who wanted to destroy Chile, right? Um wanted to convert it into that. But anybody who seeks to uh I mean you can go as early in our in the founding documents of our own countries, go back to the Puritans, anybody who sought to destroy the um the government that was established, you know what the punishment was under the Puritans? It was death. And it turned on down to to the colonies and so forth. And so the fact that uh a leftist, communist, socialist um leader was toppled is the big sin, according to the media. And therefore, anything that's done, notice you don't hear about the Chilean market uh miracle and what happened and how the how that's connected to Pinochet, that's correct.

Scott Allen 17:38

I learned that all later, like all of this economic blossoming and f and flourishing that came in the in the 80s and 90s was a result of Pinochet. You know, yeah, you don't hear that. Yeah, you're correct about the power of the media, for sure. And this gets to what we're gonna discuss a little bit later about just the Christian influence in these powerful culture-shaping institutions. The other thing that comes to my mind is is the arts. You know, when I think of that uh sec time of your history, I think I uh the the first thing that comes to my mind is that famous song that the musician Sting, you know, came out with in the 80s, a beautiful song, actually. But the the women, the women, the lost children, I think I can't remember exactly how the lyrics went. But um, yeah, these women weeping for their lost children, and just it painted this picture of a really brutal regime. And I love that song. I listened to it, everyone did, and it shaped us, shaped the paradigm.

unknown 18:32

Yeah.

Scott Allen 18:32

Arts, arts and music, so powerful.

Bracey Fuenzalida 18:35

But it's interesting though, what Pinochet did, and and this leads up to something that has in, as I've thought about it, as I've gotten older, it has inspired a lot of of certain things that I've done since that time, especially since becoming a believer at 16. Pinochet, what to to whether people like it or not, or whatever, was a deeply devout Roman Catholic. And I mean, this man was en masse, this man was very serious, and the flaws of Roman Catholicism are there for all to expound on and address and so forth. But one thing that if we're honest as Protestants, right, as those who follow the Lord and those who who who were in one respect or another, we are the children of the of the Protestant Reformation some 500 plus years ago. One thing that we have to say about the Roman Catholics is they have a very deep and rich cosmic understanding of a social vision of what the world ought to look like. And one of the things that Pinochet thought, he there were three things that he thought that were going to make a culture flourish. And this went directly against the the ideals of communism. He said, number one, vocation is a calling. Sound familiar to us? Sure. Number two, that every citizen ought to have a deep sense of institutional responsibility. And number three, that the dictates of the truth of get this, the Bible and the teaching of the church, now Roman Catholic, so put that in quotes however you would, has to shape the intellectual and cultural formation of a society. And so here is this man, quote unquote, this dictator, right? And he's laying this emphasis down, and you could see this on his book, The Crucial Day, and you're thinking to yourself, man, something is compl something is off. Either this guy is a genocidal killer, or why is this guy talking about these ideas? And then to have the wherewithal to bring down the Chicago boys out of the the uh Chicago School of Economics to implement a free market system, to work with the church to implement ideas of freedom and and begin teaching the populace. And all of a sudden, you had these mortality rates that were sky high through the roof in Chile in 1973 when he assumed the authority and power. And by the time he left the power in 1988, we had the lowest mortality uh mortality rate in all of the entire Western hemisphere.

Scott Allen 21:16

Crazy. Wow. Yeah, no, people don't realize that. I mean, Chile was the bright shining light, not just of South America, but the entire West, if not the world. I mean, it was it was a really an amazing period. Now, again, we're we're living through this history yet again. Your dad was exactly right about communism. It's back, you know, in the West, in South America, North America. This time it's neo-Marxism, not the not the same quite flavor that we were dealing with uh back then in the 70s, but the same basic pattern is playing itself out yet again. But yeah, I think um Br Bracy, this is so interesting for me. I love history. I you'll you'll learn that if you get to know me. And so I could geek out. on this history of the entire podcast. That wouldn't be very fair to our listeners who are probably

Truth As A Person In John 14

Scott Allen 22:05

going to get bored here pretty soon. So I but pick up your story, Brace. You you came to the United States, you were young, um and you uh one of the things that I remember you saying that I thought was really impactful was how you kind of discipled yourself uh on train rides and things like this, you know.

Bracey Fuenzalida 22:22

Yeah I'll I'll I'll share I'll share that a little bit. The I'll I'll I'll say this. So coming to the US, right? By the way if you just in just a quick side note just so that you don't take my word for it. Look at authors like James Welling uh James Whalen. He wrote a book called Out of the Ashes okay and he talked about this entire thing this is an American evaluating what happened in Chile just because I dropped on I I dropped a little bit of uh of a nugget there and saying that just the mortality rate alone was changed by the factors of the way uh Pinochet in Chile did things um just look at that so you can be convinced of these things I'm not just speaking off the cup. Yeah but yeah we moved we came to the US in 1979 began living in New York City so in case you hear the accent there it is I'm a New York City boy. I think Belle when she was a fellow she said you know Bracie your English is very different. Yes it is Belle it's uh it's from New York City a little hard to understand sometimes. Yes and so I had to learn a few things but my parents interestingly enough did not grow up or did not excuse me did not raise my brother and I in a either in a traditional Roman Catholic home or whatever for were your parents Catholic uh Bracie they were they were baptized as Catholics um obviously in their infancy they were confirmed and so forth but they did not practice nor did they go to church. Gotcha so by the time we got to the US um religious life and religious programming of any sort was just something that was missing in my life. Okay and I just okay you went to a a a government school in New York City and you began to see life however the culture and however you would be in shape and form that and I would say I had questions around the age of 13 14 and 15 where I was asking what is the right religion I think it was at a meeting with a Boy Scout leader and I said hey Don what's the right religion and and he said to me and I thought at the time this was a nugget of gold he said the right religion is the the whichever one you're most faithful to I was like okay great wow of course little do you realize suppose I would have been most faithful to Islam would that have made it the the right religion but then I was invited to to um in high school high school was perhaps the most formative is is where I believe the most um biggest changes in my life occurred. I was invited to go to a youth night evening by my friends who were missing on Friday nights. Usually we would go to their house watch the Tyson fights watch a quick knockout go into New York City dance all night come back the next morning repeat the cycle every weekend through high school and all of a sudden this guy is missing and he says I I went to church and I'm thinking you went way you're nuts what are you doing and of course um I'm there would I had a curiosity about church even though he said to me look man you should come to church there are girls there and I said I'll be there so I'm thinking I'm going to church because of girls but there was another question there would really the question was what is the right religion what is truth and lo and behold that evening I remember being just introduced to one of the youth night leaders and I and I just said look don't get any ideas I you may see me here you may never see me ever again but the guy that evening he was speaking out of John 14 and he said something that has forever changed my life it I I deal with this daily with what he said he said truth is not arrived at by a convention nor is truth arrived at by a democratic vote nor is it arrived at by the will of the majority or even by the decree of a Supreme Court writing truth is embodied in a person and what that person says about himself life reality you and just about everything else is always true he said in fact every any claim regarding truth is measured against what he says and I remember being in that room with about 40 or 50 other high school students thinking to myself this guy is out of his mind he's crazy how could he be so exclusive about this truth and then the clincher was that he said and not only that it what this guy says about himself concerning eternity and having peace with God if you do not believe in him then you have no peace with God you remain his enemy and again I'm looking around the room and I'm thinking I didn't know I was an enemy of God no less that I had to I even think about the entire idea of truth but I as I'm walking away one of the guys he's at the door he says so Bracie what are you thinking I said I said can you tell me where this Jesus says I am the truth the way and the life right and he points to John 14 and the and the act of him opening the scriptures where he he literally did this and he goes right there I tell you it was a very it had a powerful effect upon me because I went home that night and for the next like three months four months I could not get the idea out that truth is embodied in a person and that truth is no longer relative truth is no longer determined by your whim or it was situational but truth was actually in this person of Jesus Christ and that if you believe in him not only will you have peace but you'll have you won't be an enemy of God and you'll have eternity and you'll have eternal life and I was like wow and of course that was very important to me but I didn't understand the context of what that salvation meant until I had met my mentor about in the church at a prayer meeting because I had said to him Bracey um I I said to him his name is Tony Aguilar he's still alive I still consult his mind I mean I call him the Godfather because he believe it or not um Scott he's the one that taught me about all things Christianity in terms of the worldview that ideas DNA has and the podcast report and so he said to me I remember sitting in in a class with him we were in his living room his wife would make pasta and we would sit down and boom he says Bracie all of life is theocentric and I'm thinking what what in the world is theocentric and of course he said let's break it down so he wrote it in this whiteboard Theo God centric centered all of life is uh centered on God. He said I want you to think about what you said about your your salvation Bracy yes it's true that you have this personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Yes it's true that you have eternal life as a result yes it's true that you go to worship him in church he said but Bracy it doesn't stop there every facet of your salvation now is God centered which means that every facet of your life and I was saying well what does that mean and he draws this little circle and he writes the name God in the middle he says I can't draw God so I'm just gonna put his name here okay God and he wrote these spokes and in each one he filled them out he said see this art art has to be viewed through the lens of Jesus Christ then he did economics has economics is Christian Bracy don't forget and I'm like economics don't you know that's a value free um system of the ego nope it's Christian and I'm thinking oh my and so mathematics finance and he kept going and going and I said I think I get the point I so I said to him so you're telling me there's no part of life that is that is non-Christian everything is Christian he said exactly and he said we have to endeavor to re-image the world so that it reflects this idea so whatever you choose to do if you're gonna go into mathematics and architecture which is what

Theocentric Faith For Every Field

Bracey Fuenzalida 30:55

I was thinking at that time he said not only do you have to be the best at it but you have to seek to apply the truth of the scriptures into that field into whatever endeavor you do in life because your endeavor your your vocation will become your calling so that God uses that to re-image the world and I'm thinking man I here I am thinking I'm just coming to a simple little Bible study and that was at 18 years old.

Scott Allen 31:22

Well Bracie I just want to pause you for a quick second there because I think I mean praise God for what what is your your friend's name your disciple or Tony Aguilar Tony praise God for him. I I honestly think a lot about this because your experience of being introduced to Christianity yes as Jesus as your personal savior but but but as something more than that as a as an entire worldview a God centered worldview that makes sense of everything is still incredibly rare in the evangelical church. And I'm seeing so many young people we're all excited about the young Generation Z folks that are coming to faith, you know, and the influence of Charlie Kirk's ministry and whatnot and yet I I worry that that they're not going to have that experience that by God's grace you did, you know, in their discipleship, you know, and and and and and when you don't you have a very you know you you you you're gonna have a worldview, right? I mean it's it's just that if you don't have a God centered worldview, you're gonna have a uh a worldview that's uh you know that's um what's the word I'm looking for that's uh um divided that's uh syncretized I guess that's the word I'm looking for you know it's gonna be a worldview that's shaped largely by the culture that you grew up in secular or whatever it is but you're saved right and so anyways I just wanted to add that I just I I just praise God what a what a powerful you know change for you you know at that time as a young Christian what's interesting is that he would give me books and literature of Christians who are thinking in these categories and they were not if I would say mainstream Christians if you would because you have to understand right this is late 80s early 90s right the primary focus and I think this is a huge problem in the United States which leaves us you know why in the world do we have a problem in our culture today and and and I would say this that Christian theology has drifted towards a privatized faith.

Speaker 1 33:32

Absolutely and so here I am I'm being introduced to a very public faith that Christianity is not only changing you inwardly but it's also having to change the way you're looking at the world and the way you interact with that world and so um it's not just as much as the issue of personal salvation or or or individual morality or your religious um duties that you have to do each and every week and attend and worship at church and so forth. Yeah those things are good. But as I mentioned and then I you know this was my understanding of the way Pinochet functioned and this is why when I look back at his uh his his social Catholic teaching that he had from little and this is one of the great things that the Roman Catholic Church does and we Protestants are playing catch-up is that we are not discussing vocation as a calling institutional responsibility or intellectual and cultural formation um as as being co-equal with this whole idea of per of personal and private um religious disciplines and so for me when um by the by the time I can fast forward just quickly when when the idea of the fellows came up I had already worked at the at the King's College I ran the IT offering for them as director for a number of years seven to eight years I had worked I hadn't owned my own business and so forth but the idea that a false church fellows program can equip emergent leaders to understand that God's design for work was cosmic and that one could take step confidently into their callings through a combination of you know a workplace experience plus intentional discipleship with the Lord plus a life shaping community within the church and then one wherein we can hit the accelerator and say hey we want to be influential in the culture and wherein I can actually say to my fellows and Belle is one of them that there is not a square inch of this planet that does not belong to the Lord and that every facet of the Christian life has to be understood through the through the paradigm of the word and she could tell you this I mean she was participant in seminars where we try to touch every subject imaginable under the sun so that when a fellow leaves here they're going out of here and they're saying I know my task before me that if I'm to fulfill this dominion mandate with the years that the Lord has given to me I have to connect vocation as a call and into institutional responsibility and cultural formation as part of God's theocentric plan. I can't tell you I call him the Godfather he's out of love Tony I wish I wish I could meet him. Yeah maybe someday yeah I'll introduce you to him yeah yeah but one of the things that he introduced me to a writer um by the name of Cornelius Van Till and Cornelius Van Till writes a lot on apologetics on defending the Christian faith and Van Till did something very unique because he shaped epistemology right which is the theory of knowing right how do we know what we know and and Van Till said that we know what we know primarily because of God's revealed word to us at the core of epistemology is God's revealed word and it's where we know God it's where we know ourselves is where we know everything else now I'm thinking to myself man gosh that it that's a very profound thought well as I'm reading as I'm reading the years pass I'm I'm I'm on subway cars in New York City using the subway cars as classrooms to essentially sit with books. I'm reading like three, four

Culture As Religion Externalized

Speaker 1 37:35

books a month I ran into a guy his name was Henry Van Till and Henry Van Till wrote a book called The Calvinistic Concept of Culture and he is known for writing this little one little definition that changed my life forever. And so you talk about adding fuel to the fire of having of believing that every facet of the culture needed to be re-imaged in light of the way God presented in his word he said this that culture is religion externalized. And a friend of mine in Brooklyn also a Jewish convert he said culture is religion externalized and made explicit it dawned upon me that everybody in New York City as they carried out life as they went to a bar to have a drink to go watch the Yankees to go to to on Broadway or to do whatever it was we were working in finance right it would dawn on me we are shaping the culture our beliefs about work our beliefs about life our belief about how we care for our fellow man how we care for is an outworking of the things that we believe and they're being externalized every day. And I said to myself man oh man oh man if that doesn't inspire me to go out and shape this culture so that it reflects the image of the one who made it then shame on me.

Scott Allen 39:03

Wow yeah you there's a famous quote I Luke you know this I think it's from Pope John Paul II Catholic of course um and he says that any faith that isn't that doesn't become a culture you know works works its way out and become a culture isn't a faith that's fully believed or faithfully practiced. I mean I'm paraphrasing him but it's something like that it has always struck me as being very true. Like forget about shaping culture for a second. We're just talking about Christian faithfulness. Do you really believe this? Are you living it out faithfully it will become a culture.

Luke Allen 39:42

And if it doesn't you don't you know you don't really believe this and uh I don't know I was just I've just always been struck by that and that's kind of what I hear you saying here Bracy too so yeah that's so um it's so powerful because uh and I know I we're hoping to talk about this today as well is that understanding that Christians are by default religious that we're by default follow a worldview a set of ideas a cult if you will um is fundamental to who we are as image bearers of God because God put that in us so that we would seek him and then and then there's other worldviews other ideologies that say no we're not we're not by default religious in fact we don't even need to think we don't even need we don't even need ideas um and I know this is that famous quote from Friedrich Ingalls who says you know humans don't need ideas we just need bread and what what he's saying there is we don't need religion we don't need hope we don't need direction we don't need a set of idea a set of base values to base our life upon and that's completely anathetical to our humanity so no wonder that's such a destructive ideology when they're trying to play that out. And it feeds into the same lie that there is such thing as um as as neutral spaces in culture because like we were just saying religion is culture or culture is religion externalized. And um if you don't believe that there's that everyone's religious by default then you actually can kind of sort of it's hard to do but wrap your head around this idea that there's neutral spaces in culture. Like you were saying Bracie you thought economics was a neutral space. And that's such a lie. And it's so obviously a lie but it's it's something that's been pushed on us for so long you know since Engels in the mid-1800s is there's there's n we don't need religion. We don't we don't we don't we don't there's there is neutral spaces. That's that's not behind any of this. This isn't there's there's not a center to all of this you know and that to me is just really at the base of why Marxism is so destructive. It's interhuman so anyways that was a lot but you're helping me kind of put piece this together why we wanted to talk about this today I'm like oh I get I get what I get what you wanted where you wanted to go with this this makes sense.

Scott Allen 42:08

So anyways that's my blur um yeah uh Bracey why don't we come up to the present here a little bit I want to bring Belly into this as well. You were a successful

Falls Church Anglican’s Costly Stand

Scott Allen 42:20

um you were working on Wall Street you had a successful business as I understand and so you took quite a pay cut to take this opportunity to move to Washington DC to move to Arlington to a church called Falls Church Anglican and this program called the Fellows Program.

Speaker 1 42:38

I want to hear more about that talk about um Falls Church Anglican uh this is the church for people who aren't familiar with that name um Oz Guinness and his wife attend uh but but even more than that this is the church that uh George Washington right attended many many years ago correct I mean this is a church that's got quite a legacy yes yeah talk a little bit about Falls Church Anglican and uh and then what's happening right right now before we get into the specifics of the fellows program and what this is yeah that's a great question so um I mean I I'll just begin with the with the Falls Church um and and with them right they one of the the beautiful things that I love hearing is especially from members who have been here 20 30 some even 40 years is that the Falls Church Anglican is an evangelical church across the board they are a Bible believing church they're an Orthodox church they're an intergenerational church um they're near the Capitol um here we we're less than 15 minutes on a car ride uh and it's centered right in the beautiful part of um Falls Church um here in the suburbs um I did not realize at the time in 2000 when I was um running IT at the King's College and pushing my son saying hey man Do you want me to help you with a finance internship at New York? Because my entire life for over 40 years I've been up there. And I think I started on sophomore year with him until one day he said to me, Dad, if you ask me again, I'm gonna knock you out. So I had to, I was like, oh man, I had to resort to the next best thing and I had to pray. And I did, and he came to me in January or February of the spring, final semester for him in 2020 as he's getting ready to graduate. And one day he says, Dad, I applied to a fellowship program in DC, and it's at an Anglican church called the False Church Anglican, and I'm there like sitting, like, What? And so I immediately let me look and I I see it, and I said to him, What do you need? You need a car, you need money? Because I was ready to go. Let's let's get you rolling. And he said to me, Dad, he said, I'm applying, let's see if I can get in. About a month and a half later, two months, he says, Dad, I'm in. I got in. And I I could not have been any happier.

Scott Allen 44:58

And it's hard to get in, right, Brace? This isn't this is yeah, for your selective with who you led into the program, right?

Speaker 1 45:05

Yeah, because we go through a process. I mean, we get a lot of applications throughout the year. I'm looking for three things. I'm looking to see if you have faith in the person of Jesus Christ. I want you to be able to communicate that both in writing and then speak to me and share that with me verbally. But I almost I also want to see if you have the inkling to hear that Christianity is not just an inward faith, but a faith that it that shapes you in terms of the way you view the world. And when I spoke to Belle to give you an example, um here was this young lady. Number one, we had the challenge that she was coming from abroad in Brazil. Um, but I was I was happy about that because here I am a Latino from Chile, and I'm like, oh, if we get a Brazilian in here, you know, the Anglicans are gonna see some real movement.

Scott Allen 45:52

And uh by the way, that was very big of you not to hold her Brazilian nationality against her because I know there's you know, it's some sometimes there's a little bit of prejudice there down there, isn't there?

Speaker 1 46:02

Yeah, well, I was excited. I I just I was excited about the possibility, and of course, she inquired regarding what could this mean from coming from abroad, and I said, why don't we go through the process? Let me begin working this out with the people in the church, with the authorities to see how we can make this possible. Well, by God's grace, um, it it turned out very quickly that Belle was um not only someone who loved the Lord, but someone who actually wanted to see herself working um with whatever she did in her life. And I believe she was an international major, international relations major at the university there in Paraiba. And then she was also, I mean, rock solid student, uh, competed with everybody just in terms of academia, in terms of her understanding, but also in her faith. And so for for us to be able to say we want to extend this young lady uh an offer and an invite to be a fellow, we thought it was an issue of pride, and we were gonna work out all the other things that we did for her. And by God's grace, she was able to uh join us um here at the um uh at the church. Um, but since you asked about the question, we'll go back to Bella in a second. One of the things about the the false church Anglican is that it's a community rooted in Christ. For over 200 plus years, this place has been a place where they've served the Lord. And if you remember a number of years ago, the church stood a stand, made, made a stand and put its stake on the ground and say, here we are, we can't do any more, you know, unless I'm guided by, unless our conscience is guided by the word of God. I we're not gonna move on these issues. And as a result, they ended up leaving a denomination, they ended up losing a multimillion dollar uh property.

Scott Allen 47:57

Yes, it was part of the Episcopal Church, um, you know, which is the Anglican Church of the United States, the Episcopal Church at a time when the Episcopal Church hierarchy was moving, you know, in a radical kind of unbiblical direction on all sorts of issues. So it created a crisis for churches that were Bible believing, like Falls Church, and it came to a head. You're right, you know, they they threatened to take away this property. We're talking millions and millions of dollars, right? You know, and um and they did. And they did.

Speaker 1 48:28

And what what what was interesting to me is I'm in New York watching this, I'm reading through World Magazine and all the various mediums where you get this kind of information, and I'm thinking, wow, what a radical stand. And of course, little do you realize that one day the Lord is orchestrating this where you're gonna lead one of their programs that they started 32 years ago. I'm gonna work with a young lady from Brazil. My son is gonna be a part of the program, he was a fellow five years ago, and and to be a part of this entire community, but the church made this stand, and here they were, as many of them tell me, said Bracie, we couldn't even leave with a book of common prayer. We had to leave everything, plus all our money and our bank accounts and everything. And they began from scratch. And what's interesting is they didn't miss a week of worship. Two, they were going from Dan to Beersheba here in False Church, if you would, every week go into one other gymnasium to do school gymnasiums or wherever they could meet, right? Yeah, they planted about seven or six eight churches in the process. Now you think about it, right? Here's the Lord growing his church in crisis, not when there's a big, beautiful structure. And by the time Well, there's a lesson in that.

Scott Allen 49:40

I'm sorry, Bracie, but this is something I've heard over and over again. I have a testimony in my own life about that. You know, this is when we're in these crises is when God really shows up in so many ways. Yeah, go ahead. It does. Yeah.

Speaker 1 49:52

And so, and so what happens is that within that process, uh, my son becomes a fellow through this, and then he goes to the fellow jail, and I'm thinking, all right, we're gonna get him back, let's get him going. You know, I I have some contacts with him here in New York City, and one day he calls, he says, Dad, mom, I'm not coming back. This is my community now. And I tell you, I I'm on the other side, like with tears in my eyes, and I'm thinking, oh my gosh, I lost the kid. I lost him. I said, Wait, what are we gonna do?

Scott Allen 50:22

How are we gonna the pit of the very pit of hell, Washington, DC? Oh my gosh. Yeah, right.

Speaker 1 50:27

I was happy that he was an Anglican because I was a positive Anglican for many years. But I you know one of the things that that that struck me was that I didn't, I you don't see at the moment what the Lord is orchestrating in terms of his providence and how he's going to move historically. And I say this because even now as I sit here in this interview with you, Scott, and Luke, but especially Belle. I don't when here I am answering Belle's questions about what her wanting to be a fellow with us. We go through the process and the whole deal. The Belle becomes a fellow. I remember picking her up at the airport, showing her the house, and then Belle working through the entire process, new culture, new society, a whole new everything. And of course, now here's Belle working at Discipling the Nations Alliance. A little bit I knew in the process of interviewing her that she had a book in Portuguese, which was of course Discipling the Nations by Daryl Miller, which shaped her thinking. And so, of course, I'm reading this and I'm like, oh, this girl's gonna be a poet. Right? She's already thinking it will be categories in Portuguese. I couldn't be more excited. She comes a fellow, she's prepping to go back, she meets another one of our fellows from the University of Florida, and as the Lord would have it, the two somehow they did this, and here they are, they're engaged now. How about that? You talk about just the providence of the Lord doing work, right, with people, and then I think of this church and this church where they're committed radically to holiness, to living out the uh the life of the person of Jesus Christ, to serving, and then the church is sold out and saying, Hey, that it's it's not about us, it's about the world, and we need to go out. Though we're a community that's rooted in Christ,

How The Fellows Program Works

Speaker 1 52:25

we're a community that's also moving in Christ. Yes. And so this community that's rooted, 32 years ago starts this fellows program that says, Hey, we want to uh we don't want to confine uh this formation of Christianity for something that's inward, but we want it so that it it it it shapes the fellows so that you move all around the world.

Scott Allen 52:49

And you're really trying to recover something there that's part and parcel of our own legacy, our Protestant evangelical legacy in the United States. This is the way the Puritans that came to our shores thought, right? They wanted to create a city on a hill. It wasn't this personal spiritual relationship with Jesus Christ and forget the rest of the world. They had a vision that encompassed the entire world, and they they we lost that. And what you guys are trying to do is recover that right there in the very heart of things. Washington, D.C., I love that. But Bracie, I want to hear, Bell, I want to hear your story about how you came into the program. But just give us a one less than a minute, just really what is how do you describe the purpose of the fellows' program at Falls Church Anglican Bracie? What are you trying to accomplish?

Speaker 1 53:36

Your question about Bracie. Oh, okay. Excuse me. What are we trying to accomplish? It's simple. I I want for our fellows to understand that personal renewal leads to cultural transformation. And the fact that you offer your life to God becomes the most important act that a believer can make in this life because God will then turn you around, refine you, and move you into spaces where he is going to redeem things that are around you. That is in essence what we do here at The Fellows. Personal renewal leads to cultural transformation. Um, and on my end, I do everything in my power to shape the fellows' their mind, um, to provide a form of spiritual formation, whether that's through discipleship, whether that's through teaching, whether that's through a mentor in our church, um, whether it's to have them constantly engage within the church, but you ask my fellows, I give books to them like I'm giving candy, and they'll can tell you books, books, books, books. It says I want you to shape this thing out with you.

Scott Allen 54:54

You can speak uh personally to that.

Speaker 54:56

So true, so true.

Scott Allen 54:57

So so if I could just add, how how many months is it that the fellows, the young, the young folks are with you?

Speaker 1 55:03

It's nine months.

Scott Allen 55:04

Nine months. So this is intensive. And what I heard too, Bracey, is that it's not just an intense discipleship time, but it's also connected to opportunities often that come out of the back end. You've got employers out there in business and finance and government and other places who know that these are amazing people, right? And so you you know, there's a lot of connections that happen into places of influence in the culture and the government and whatnot, right? Is that correct?

Speaker 1 55:33

Yeah. So the schedule simply breaks down like this. On Monday, they generally meet for a worldview seminar. On Monday, we bring in speakers to address, you name the issue, we're addressing it. Monday evening they're generally at my house. Tuesday through Thursday, they're working at a job of their calling. So what we try to do is I have a team of about 60 people that work directly under me: a jobs team, an admissions team, a mentors team, a host family team, a marketing team. And the jobs team, what they're responsible, they have about 10 to 12 people. They're responsible of reaching out to about 70 to 80 companies that we work with, and based upon the interest that the fellow has, or based upon something that the Lord has put into their heart to study, we try to match them up here. It's so powerful.

Scott Allen 56:20

Yeah. It is because I mean we need that, right? We need these kind of supportive training and connecting uh environments if we're going to you know have some influence in some of these major areas of the culture. So I just applaud you for that, Brace. Bell, how did you hear about this program way down in Brazil? Like, this is uh not close. Bye. How did you find out about it and why did you decide you wanted to apply?

Speaker 56:46

I know, right? This is the greatest story. And it's interesting because, like, um, I see what Bracy said here, like God's providence through it all. Um, so how God orchestrates history to accomplish his will. And with me, it was exactly how it happened. Like, it was just God um leading points, like leading pieces of the story to bring me to the fellowship program. So, what happened was that I was studying here in Brazil. I was in college and I was studying international relations, but my college was very secular. I mean, my all my teachers, all my professors were secular, my friends were like they didn't have a religion pretty much. Um so I found myself going through college alone. Like, I was like, God, what is your plan for for international relations? Like, what is your plan for diplomacy? What is your plan for, I don't know, countries that suffer with human trafficking or poverty or corruption? And what helped me through um college, it was literally Darrow's book, Discipling the Nations. And I had to do that.

Scott Allen 58:02

How did you get that book, Belly? What was the connection there for you to get a hold of Darrow's book, Discipling Nations?

Isabelle Souza 58:08

Well, it was my parents. Um, my parents had this foundation of a biblical worldview, and um, they just taught me, you know, like they taught me all of all of what that they knew about it, and um yeah, they helped shape my worldview to a biblical and Christian worldview. So that's where it comes from. So I'm very thankful for them. Um so yeah, they had the book, they recommended to me through college. So I was reading that book as I was studying like some other subject in college, you know, like international law or trades or whatever it was. So it was very helpful because I was like, wow, this is what God has, like this is disciplined for donations, you know. Um, so that was very important to me. And I knew for sure that once I would like I was finishing college, I wanted to like be somewhere that would help me integrate even more like what I believe with what I was doing, like my my calling, my vocation, what I believed God called me to do, um, to like heal the nations and and serve the nations with a biblical wordview. Because like as Bracey was saying in the beginning, like with his example of Shane and Chile, like there's no like a government cannot flourish if it doesn't have a biblical wordview, if it doesn't understand God's plans for the nation, you know. So as I was leaving college, I was like, I need to find a program, I need to find something to help me like start my career with the Rhyme mindset. And I had a recommendation from a friend um about the fellows program, and then I went and did some more research about it, and I was just I was just amazed by how complete and how amazing the program was, like from trying

Belly’s Call From Brazil To DC

Speaker 1:00:05

to provide um just um trying to be a blessing to the fellow in all areas of life and yeah, helping them with their careers, with their character, you know, like personal development, but also like spiritual development. Um and when Brace says that he tries everything in his power to like help us with that journey, he mean it. And yeah, I I think I experienced that with his family, like especially like on Mondays at round table with his wife and his now and then with his kids. So it was it was just such a blessing for me.

Scott Allen 1:00:44

Oh, that's wonderful. Billy, if you could kind of point to one particular aha, you know, kind of something that really had an impact on maybe your own understanding of the biblical worldview from the time that you spent in the fellows program. Could you could you talk a little bit about that? Was there was there one or two things that just really stood out to you? Or how God used that program in your life, maybe? Besides meeting your future husband, I understand that.

Isabelle Souza 1:01:11

Oh, that's funny. Oh, well, I could I could talk about a few things for sure. But I think what stood out the most for me it was exactly this, like the how God orchestrates history and the importance of me understanding where I fit in. Like what is my role in all of that, you know? Because his role will be accomplished despite me, but thankfully, God is so good that He calls me to be a co-participant of all of that. So how am I like working for DNA? Am I gonna like in God's kingdom? Or I have several friends here in my class that some of them were like teachers, some of them worked with art. And so, how in arts, like how painting a painting, a good painting, they could bring God's glory, they could give God glory and also expanding God's kingdom. But um, so yeah, so yeah, that was the main thing for me. God is orchestrating everything to accomplish his will. How can I fit in? How is he calling me to use my talents and gifts to participate in his Greek plan? And I think I saw that happening like in practice in practical ways through the fellows program.

Scott Allen 1:02:32

Like that's great.

Speaker 1:02:33

Every single thing, like even to like from finding me a host family to the support, you know, and everything that I needed, I feel like.

Scott Allen 1:02:43

It's so good that it's uh it's a host family program too. I I I love the way that you've brought you've uh created this brace here. I don't, you know, whoever created it, but the but the method of learning isn't just let's sit and learn, kind of fill our heads and read books, but it's it's let's sit around tables and let's talk and let's let's learn in the context of real relationships, which is you know very much Jesus' way. It's very powerful, and it sounds like you follow that that model uh very intentionally there at the Fellows Program. Thank you.

Speaker 1 1:03:13

We do.

Scott Allen 1:03:14

Um Raisia, we we need to kind of begin to wrap things up, sadly, because uh this is just so much fun to talk to you about all of this. But uh I want to kind of circle back to something we were talking about at the beginning and how, despite the large number of evangelicals, I think it's we're we're the if you kind of divide the country up into different kinds of groups, we're the largest single kind of religious group, any kind of group, um, and yet we have so little influence in terms of uh having leaders, let's say, in these institutions and sectors of society that are really influential in shaping society. Somebody's gonna be there, somebody's gonna do that work, somebody's gonna shape the culture, somebody's gonna lead these institutions, and if it's not a Bible-believing, faithful, Bible-believing evangelical, is it gonna be somebody else? That's where we find ourselves today. And you have a church that largely is kind of, I don't know what what the word is, they almost like doesn't care about that, like we're apathetic about that, like it doesn't really matter that we're not there, who cares? That's not really what our faith is about. Our faith is about getting saved and going to heaven when we die. And it's kind of a distraction. You need this talk about shaping culture, influencing culture, discipling nations. Uh that lead, you know, I I do think there's history that kind of they can point to to say that churches have gotten distracted and forgotten the gospel and it all was about, you know, you know, uh programs, government programs to change the world, to bring the kingdom of God through government, enlightened government programs or something like that. Yes, we've got to beware of that. That was that was real, some real history there. Um but uh but we've overreacted, let's just say, you know, and now we you know there's this kind of overreaction to the point of being apathetic. Um you're moving in a different direction, though, with this program, uh uh Bracie. You you really want to see this change. Um talk about that a little bit and and what your vision is for the long term here.

Speaker 1 1:05:16

Um great question. I I can I'll I'll begin by saying what I'm against and then say what I'm for. Usually it's the other way around. You want to say what you're for and what you're against. But I think this is such an important thing. When I realize that the country and Christianity as a whole is suffering in terms of it having an influence where we have a genuine prophetic voice where the church is looked at for leadership, where the church is looked at for compassion, where the church is looked at for excellence, what whatever it may be. I kept saying to myself, what is it, what is it, what is it? And I tried to understand what in the world is going on. On with Christianity. In my I'm good, I'm gonna be a Christian now almost what 37 years. I would say at the very top of of the things that hold Christians back that really uh make Christians uh irrelevant, if you would, is that so many within the world of of Christendom today in the United States, we we've adopted what I what I refer to as escapist eschatologies. By this I mean that if we believe that the Lord's return is imminent, and I mean I'm talking somewhere in the next year or two or whatever the case may be, there's a tendency to all of a sudden drop our responsibilities culturally, socially, um, in every way conceivable. The Lord is coming back anyway. Why polish a sinking ship?

Scott Allen 1:06:55

Yeah, why polish the deck chairs on the Titanic is the kind of the famous slogan. But but that just gets it exactly opposite. We, as Christians, if the Lord's gonna come back, we don't know when he's gonna come back. If he's gonna come back next year, you better be busy doing his work, right?

Speaker 1 1:07:09

Correct, correct. And so I I'm of the belief that one of the things, the maladies that have affected the uh Christians here, especially since the mid-1800s, has been this escapist eschatology. I read a book on the

Finding Your Role In God’s Story

Speaker 1 1:07:25

uh called The Incredible Schofield, and it's it was almost as if they designed that study Bible that they put so that we can get Christians in a frame of mind of thinking that, hey, you have to leave the world for others to run it, for serious people to run it. Not you Christians worry about escaping the world and so forth. And you talk about the one of the biggest mistakes Christians have made, that is it holding to uh what I refer to an escapist or a pessimistic eschatology regarding the future.

Scott Allen 1:07:56

And Bracie, just if I could cut in really quick, this is not part of the historic Christian understanding, this is not kind of mere Christianity, this is something kind of new, isn't it?

Speaker 1 1:08:06

Correct.

Scott Allen 1:08:06

This is right, and it wasn't the way our our founding fathers uh in the country, the the Puritans that came to the shores. I mean, they they didn't think this way.

Speaker 1 1:08:15

Correct, correct. And so it's very important. So when you look at the Puritans and you look at the way they've looked at the future, they were very confident about the future. But one of the things that I learned in reading uh military books and reading about how you change the mind of people is hey, if you want your people to have a strategic shift in thinking, have cause them to have pessimism regarding the future and then see what happens. There's a reason why in the world there's one religion that is moving at breakneck speed to transform and re-image um the world according to their prophet. Why? They have a long-term view, a long-term eschatological view. Christians used to have this, and for whatever reason, here in the United States, we've switched that. That's the first thing. Yeah. And so we need to then recover a view of it.

Scott Allen 1:09:08

You're right about Islam, it has it, and the Marxists, the neo-Marxists have it. They really have a a vision, and I don't know if the word optimistic fits there, but they have a vision to disciple the nation.

Speaker 1 1:09:19

Yes, they do.

Scott Allen 1:09:20

And so and they're getting after it, you know.

Speaker 1 1:09:23

I like to say, I like to say, if we if look, we have the most powerful testimony in the world, redemption has brought us out of death and into life. And so I have a saying, and Bell can tell you this. I I've said this over and over and over. The power of redemption is stronger than the power of sin anytime, every time, all the time. And if that's true, how in the world can we have a pessimistic view about the future if God is redeeming all things to Himself, as he says in Colossians 1 20, all things, right? And so Absolutely.

Scott Allen 1:09:58

I sometimes overlay this on per you know with personal sanctification because I think there's a parallel. How many of you are pessimistic about your personal sanctification? It's almost like you're slandering God, right? I mean, God's got a plan to make you holy, right? It's not going to be complete until glorification, but he's working that out, right? You know, to say, oh, God can't do it. I'm just gonna get worse, I'm gonna get more, you know, profane or whatever. You know, like

Escapist Eschatology And Lost Responsibility

Scott Allen 1:10:25

what? What what are you believing about God?

Speaker 1 1:10:28

Yeah, yeah. I I would say, secondly, also is that um vocation is not only vocation is not only a calling, right, but God is employing you, utilizing your vocation to fulfill Colossians 1.20 each and every day. And that process won't stop until until every enemy is under his footstool, it tells us in 1 Corinthians 15 and 25. If that's true, if that's true, then we have some marching orders because what occurred in Genesis 1, those marching orders are still in an effect today. As such, as such, we have a duty. And this is why when I look at the fellows, as long as God has me breathing, I'll be careful with tight money and so forth, and you know, we'll do campaigns to raise money. But I want hundreds of Belle Susan's out there. I want hundreds of these young guys who've come out of the University of Florida, a guy named Luke, he he was a finance guy, and this guy is thinking properly. I want hundreds, and I can name every fellow I've had, hundreds, thousands of these people.

Speaker 4 1:11:42

Why?

Speaker 1 1:11:43

Because if they're gonna go out into the world, they're gonna look at this as a field whereby God is using them to help redeem that field so that the Lord says, This is belongs to me. Well done, good and faithful servant. Uh yeah. So I and I want to, of course, and look, and then the third part is we have got to commit ourselves to intellectual and cultural transformation. And this is why I think the work of Discipling the Nations Alliance is so important. Because you guys don't know this. But while I was teaching high schoolers and college students in New York City of all places, and I'm using Discipling the Nations, or I use your book, Biblical Justice versus Social Justice, or I look at some of the other books that Darrell published and so forth, and I'm mixing that in with the with the content and curriculum that I'm teaching these eighth graders, ninth graders, twelfth graders, and these kids are coming out saying, All right, let me get me out into the world. I want to start a business, I want to do this, I want to do that. And I'm saying, yes. And so to me, we need to be up to the intellectual challenge that the world is posing to us so that we can look at academia through the proper lens and say, let's attack it, let's get this right, but let's reorder it also so that we present something that is proper and reflecting the Christian ideal of what we understand to be the intellectual life. And through that, I believe that not only are we going to get cultural transformation in the workforce, not only are we going to get cultural transformation in terms of our own private religious experiences and duties that we have before the Lord, but also in our intellectual and cultural formation. And when you get that multiplied over 25, 50, 75 years, I won't get to see it, but I know I will have had a hand in its formation. And yes, is it small? I take 14 to 16 fellows a year. No problem. I'll work with that. The Lord used 12 to change the world.

Scott Allen 1:13:46

So I think he always talked about the mustard seed, you know. It always is like he said, Don't, don't kind of uh uh you know these small beginnings are just exactly the way I like to work, right? Because then you get to see the power of God at work too. So mustard seed, yeast, right? Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 1:14:05

But that's my vision, Scott. That's my vision for the fellows, that's my vision for what it's simple. I laid it out. I mean, we can go into other details at another time, right? Yeah, it's a powerful vision.

Scott Allen 1:14:16

I'm so grateful that you're there doing that work, Bracie. Yeah, no, I'm so grateful. And I want I want our listeners to hear your passion and vision because I want this to be to to multiply. But but let's before we talk about that, just how do people connect, Bracie, to let's say there's people listening that want to know more about the fellows program and want to maybe apply? What where do you direct them?

Speaker 1 1:14:40

That's great. If you are, I'll just say this for those of you who are college students and you're nearing your junior junior and senior year of college, look us up. You can go to falsechurchfellows.com, falsechurchfellows.com, our website. Um my my info, my contact information is there. You can call me, you can email me. I would love to talk with you and see what you want to do for the future. Um, and it doesn't matter which part of the United States or the world for that matter, it doesn't matter where you're coming from, let me know because if you want to redeem the world, if you want to join hands with the Lord and you want to redeem the world, by all means, let's go. I'm ready to run with you. That's awesome. Number two, if if if if you want to help our vision and you want us um to become what I call a member of the 1517 Society, and there's a reason why I call it the 1517 Society, because that was the year that Martin Luther went to the castle and stamped the 95 pieces and began what we call this reformation. And the reformation is so that we can get proper thinking, not only at the personal and private level, but also at the social and cultural level. I want 1,517 donors given to us regularly. Why? So that we can put these funds to work, so that we can have the likes of Abelle Susa, Luke Stocksdale, Davis and Drum, um Olivia Raw, and all these other fellows that I've had. And I'm sorry, fellows, that you guys didn't get to hear me mention your name, but you know it. But I want to see as many of these people working in places like Congress, working in places like the White House, working in financial firms, working as homemakers, working as those individuals who are going to change society. Um and sometimes funds are needed for that. And we won't we don't need much. If you could do 10 bucks a month, let us know. But be part of that 1517 society as we build donations for the Falls Church fellows.

Scott Allen 1:16:45

There's your call, everybody. Okay, so let's let's be pitching in financially to help this vision continue here at Falls Church Anglican. And then I would say one last thing, Bracy. If I'm a pastor, like I often think of the church I attend here in Oregon, and I think, gosh, it would be great to kind of replicate what you're doing there, kind of have a fellows program, if you will, right here in Oregon, and and and feeding it into places that could really be shaping the culture at a l at a local state level, you know, uh government, you know, sports are really big, out of doors, you know, whatever the what you know, there there's ways of shaping a local culture. How do I are you open to that, Bracey, talking to other pastors? I know you've got churches around the country, I believe, that are kind of doing models of what you're doing. Is that correct?

unknown 1:17:34

Yep.

Speaker 1 1:17:35

Yeah, we started this thing 32 years ago, and as of today, we have 36 programs nationwide. Wow, wow. They still get calls monthly uh asking about how do we start a what can we do? Um, what are you doing? How are you changing the lives of people? And they're hearing things. Why? Because our fellows are showing up in churches, they're like, we should start a fellows program. Um, in fact, we just got word from someone here near North Baltimore who was a fellow in our first class about

Scaling The Vision And Supporting Fellows

Speaker 1 1:18:05

to start their first fellows program in North Baltimore. And I'm thinking to myself, man, what a great way to integrate the entire idea of intergenerational discipleship where you can incorporate the church as a means to help to disciple those fellows who are going to be a part of your program. Also, a way that you can create something between you and the workforce, right? Because life, work, and Christianity are so interconnected. And it's interesting, right? That's the last, those are like the least kind of sermons that you hear sermons about work and vocation and purpose and all this, right? And then, as important as anything, a vision of how we can transform the marketplace. Because if we're gonna be the responsible leaders that are gonna bring these leaders like Bell and Luke and Davison and Jules and all these other people, right? Um, we're bringing excellence to the marketplace. I can't tell you how many times I've had an employer say to me, Bracie, where in the world are you getting these people? And I'm like, Why? Did they do something bad? They're like, no, they've done really well. And can you give me another one right away? I'm like, I can't produce them out of thin air. This is a process. So little do they little do they realize how much is going into the background. I had another employer tell me, say, you know, Bracie, um, your fellows seem to come in with a very um deep and long vision regarding the future. And you if if we keep that fellow here or we hire them, we suspect they're not going to be a major issue for our HR group because they they come in with a purpose that's far bigger than dollars and cents. I'm giving you a direct quote from an employer. And I thought to myself, that's exactly the way it ought to be.

Scott Allen 1:19:54

Um and so again, yeah, I wish I could probe a little bit more on that, because one of the things that occurs to me is that you when you go out into elite institutions or spheres of society like justice right now, the the legal profession is so captured by by far-left ideology that it's a very hostile environment for Christians. And so the temptation when Christians go in there is to keep their head down, don't say anything, or go along to get along, you know, with whatever it is. I mean, just last week I was we were reading the story of the Chicago Bulls basketball player who, to his great credit, you know, he said, I'm gonna stand firm for Jesus Christ, even if it means you let me go. And the issue is uh, you know, kind of forced celebration of LGBTQ issues or something by the by the basketball team. You must be preparing your young people for that as well, right? I take it, Bracie, because this is the environment they're gonna go into.

Speaker 1 1:20:51

Yeah, I mean, our fellows, they know this, they they get up. Look, uh we built a seminar form of instruction for them that it takes two ideas and gives them a crash course on apologetics and worldview. And I there's no separating the two because to me, what value do you place on the idea that your child, right, is going to come out and know how to answer the skeptic who is asking for a reason for the hope of his belief and to do so winsonly, convincingly, and then to put the skeptic on his heels to say, wait a second, I have to answer for my own assumptions? That's right, Mr. Skeptic, because you're right now you're borrowing from my assumptions in order to make sense of your world. What are you saying? I love that. Yeah, this is what this is the nature of the philosophy of the apologetics that we're teaching here. That's correct. So that the when the fellow leaves here, the fellow is saying to myself, man, not only do I understand my calling in regards to my purpose in in terms of relating it to the Dominion Mandate, but I also have been given the tools and the wherewithal to be able to respond convincingly, because this is indeed God's world, and the skeptic, he has to uh give an account for why he believes.

Scott Allen 1:22:11

Um I hear I hear confidence in there, you know, and faithfulness that you're teaching your kids, boldness, courage. Anyways, Bracey, we could go on and on, but we need to wrap it up. I'm just so grateful. You've been so generous with the time. We've gone over uh the time here, but uh that just thank you for your generosity. Thank you for what you're doing. God bless you. And again, we we are honored that uh the DNA and uh Darrow and Discipling Nations could play a little role here in this, all of this as well. That's really exciting and means a lot to us. So, anyways, thanks for that.

Speaker 1 1:22:48

What you have done. Uh, just know that you're this book primarily was Discipling the Nations, was you utilized in New York City en masse, with from eighth graders all the way up to 12th graders and then through college. And um I I cannot tell you how important the work that you guys have done to put this in writing. And then for someone, a little guy like me in New York City, just spreading this as much as we can and let's see where the Lord takes us. I hope it spreads like wildfire. So thank you.

Scott Allen 1:23:24

Well, we're gonna link arms and Lord, Lord willing, we'll see that happen. Belly, thank you so much for taking your time to be with us today. Love you, Bell. Yeah, God bless you, and um, yeah, look forward to seeing how God's gonna

Final Encouragements And Closing

Scott Allen 1:23:35

be working in your life. We're so happy to have you as part of our DNA team right now. And Luke, Luke, any final thoughts from you as we wrap up here?

Luke Allen 1:23:41

Oh, I'd I I mean I would just give a standing ovation. That was fantastic. I'm so fired up right now, Gracie. You know, I'm gonna lose Luke here to the fellows program, is what I'm gonna do. There's probably a little a little bit. I don't totally agree. We need to plant this in every church in America. That would be awesome. Yeah, I would love to see that happen, you know. What a I'm I mean, why aren't churches doing that? This is what this is what we're supposed to be doing, discipling our people, you know. And and then discipleship takes you know strategic and you know, it's not it's not something that just happens. Like it needs strategic initiatives like the like a fellows program. Um for for college student age, that's such a you know, pivotal moment in life, but every age group, you know, like we need to step into this what is discipleship, and like you were saying, Bracie, discipleship and apologetics and worldview. I love that. Those are linked, those need to be linked. All Christians should be able to understand both of those and and uh defend both of them clearly. So love it. Standing ovation from me. Uh the clapping, the clapping is gonna mess on my audio, but I love it.

Scott Allen 1:24:45

Well the Lord bless you guys. All right, God bless you, Bracie. Yeah, thanks, thanks for your time, Belly. God bless you.

Speaker 1 1:24:50

Take care, guys. Bye bye.