Ideas Have Consequences
Worldviews shape communities, influence politics, steer economics, set social norms, and ultimately affect the well-being of both your life and your nation. Obedience to the Great Commission involves replacing false ideas with biblical truth. Together with the help of friends, our mission is to demonstrate that only biblical truth leads to flourishing lives, families, societies, and nations. This show explores the intersection of faith and culture, aiming to address pressing societal issues through a biblical lens. Ideas Have Consequences is the podcast of the Disciple Nations Alliance.
Ideas Have Consequences
Christmas Special: Eggnog, Joy to the World, And A Dragon-Slaying Messiah
Episode Summary:
Christmas isn’t just a cozy story; it’s the moment the King of Kings invaded history. Christmas marks the turning point of history where the King claims His throne. From Isaiah 9 to Revelation 19, we trace the arrival of the Lamb who was slain and the rise of the Lion of Judah who reigns. We explore how biblical hope is active, not passive, calling Christians to occupy till He comes. We’re called to live courageously and bless this world as far as the curse is found. This is a vision of Christmas that practically fuels cultural renewal, faithfulness, justice, beauty, and shalom in everyday places.
Who is Disciple Nations Alliance (DNA)? Since 1997, DNA’s mission has been to equip followers of Jesus around the globe with a biblical worldview, empowering them to build flourishing families, communities, and nations. 👉 https://disciplenations.org/
📌 Recommended Links
👉 Past Christmas Special | 2024: Connecting Christmas to Creation Changes Everything with Jessica Shakir
👉 Past Christmas Special | 2023: Joy to the World: Let Earth Receive Her King
👉 #1 Most Popular Episode of 2025: Can the Sun Rise on the West Again? | Vishal Mangalwadi
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Hi friends, Merry Christmas, and welcome back to Ideas Have Consequences. This is the podcast of the Disciple Nations Alliance. As Christians, our mission is to spread the gospel around the world to all the nations. However, our mission also involves working to transform our cultures so that they increasingly reflect the truth, goodness, and beauty of God's kingdom. Tragically, the church has largely neglected this second part of her mission, and today many Christians are having little influence on their surrounding cultures. Join us on this podcast as we rediscover what it means for each of us to disciple the nations and to create Christ-honoring cultures that reflect the character of the living God. Guys, thanks so much for joining us today for this special Ideas Have Consequences Christmas episode. Today I am joined by a lot of the team here at the Disciple Nations Alliance. Myself first, my name is Luke Allen. I am one of the hosts and producer of this podcast, and today I am joined by Daryl Miller, Scott Allen, Tim Williams, and Sean Carson. Hey guys, how are we doing today? Really good. Good to be here. Great, great, great. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Yep, this is fun. So glad to be with you guys. I'm sitting here working on an eggnog latte, and I am excited for today's discussion. Yeah, it's great. My wife and I have an espresso machine, so I get a treat every morning. It's it's pretty great. Little eggnog at this time of the year, too. Um as far as setting up this episode goes, Dad, I'll leave that to you. But before we get into that, I thought we would just um give you guys a quick year-end wrap on this podcast. Ideas have consequences. Uh, we had a great year this year, thanks to you guys listening. Um I thought I'd give you a little bit behind the scenes on some of the statistics of this year, which I thought were kind of fun. Um first off, uh our top listeners for this year. Uh it was pretty similar to last year. Uh the majority of you guys coming to us listening right now are in Phoenix, Arizona, Bend, Oregon, Portland, Oregon, Los Angeles, California, Lusaka, Zambia, Dallas, Texas, Chicago, Illinois, Singapore, Missouri City, Texas, and Denver, Colorado. And our top countries listening to this podcast are the United States, obviously. Then Canada, Brazil, the UK, South Africa, Philippines, Singapore, Mexico, Australia, and Zambia going down from there. There was 54, no, not 54, that was last year, 46 of countries listening to this podcast this year. So so glad to see all you guys from around the world tuning in. As far as our top episodes of this year, you guys really enjoyed listening to the episode with Vishal Mongoadi. No surprise there, he is brilliant. That episode was titled, Can the Sun Rise on the West Again? We also had George Barna on the podcast. That was our second most popular episode, where the title was Lack of Disciple Making equals lack of cultural impact. Our next most popular episode was with James Whitford earlier this year. We also, uh, the Nancy Pearcy episode, no surprise there. She's always a hit. Um her episode came in number four, and then uh so on and so forth down from there. So a lot of great guests this year. Uh, we had a lot of fun uh just sharing episodes with all of the awesome guests, and uh, I really enjoyed all of the talks. Um, as far as your you guys listening, um, the audience grew this year, which is always fun to see. More followers uh from different countries around the world. Uh, but a few of you in particular are our top fans. Um, about 52 of you pretty much don't miss an episode, which is awesome to see. Uh, so we're so thankful for each and every one of you guys uh who are coming to us every week listening to an episode. We really appreciate your guys' faithfulness and are so thankful for all of you guys and your time. Uh as far as today's episode goes, yeah, this is our Christmas special. We're not exactly going to have a traditional Christmas type discussion since we are worldview guys. We wanted to talk about Christmas in a little bit of a bigger lens, a worldview-ish lens. Uh so as far as setting that up, Dad, would you mind uh getting us rolling today on uh this discussion?
Scott Allen:Yeah, absolutely. Thanks, Luke. And guys, it's great to be with you uh today for this Christmas podcast. And yeah, I uh what one of the themes, of course, of the DNA is um that we need to recover the the larger story of the Bible. Um the Bible is a story. Um, it's a true story. It is the true story, the greatest story ever told. It has a beginning, it has an end, it uh follows a storyline, it has characters, everything that a great story does, a climax, a conclusion. Um so it's in it's really important as we dive into the Bible and we study um deeply uh in particular passages of the scripture. There's great value in that, but we have to, in order to gain value out of that, you have to see it as it exists in the larger context of the whole story. And that's particularly true of the Christmas story. And so um, that's what we're gonna talk about today a little bit, is how we understand the Christmas story in light of the larger story. And today, if I could, I would like to just suggest that the biblical story is the story of a king and his kingdom. That's really what this story is about. It's about a king and his kingdom. Um uh the God Himself, the triune God that begins our story in the beginning. God created the heavens and the earth. Um, he is the king. Uh, he owns and rules over all. He is sovereign. And he created everything. Um, and he created us to rule because we bear his image. We also uh have a place to rule and reign in his kingdom. Uh the as you get into the story, Genesis chapter 3, you uh you see that a usurper comes along and falsely claims the throne of the kingdom, uh, Satan himself. And so a lot of the narrative of the Bible is the reclaiming of the tr of the kingdom by the true king uh from this usurper to the throne. And there's so many different ways we can see this in the scriptures. I'm I'm I'm I'm mindful of when Jesus uh was in the desert uh being tempted, um Satan, you know, uh comes to Jesus and acts like he's the king, speaks like he's the true king. You know, he says, Hey, if you bow and you worship me, all of these kingdoms before you, you know, I will give to you as if he owns them. Um he does not. He's a usurper to the throne. The true king is coming back. And to understand Christmas rightly, we have to understand it as the arrival of the king. And the king is going to return at the end as well. And we live between these two appearances of the king, his first arrival and his second arrival. And when we think of the first arrival at Christmas, uh we we often think of Jesus as a helpless baby born in a manger. He obviously was, but he was also a king, and and you see that um with the uh with the wise men when they come and offer the gifts and bow down and worship him as a king. Um so you see this this king has arrived. Um and I at this point I want to I want to uh turn it over to you, Daryl, because uh Daryl, you said something uh recently. I was listening to you speak about your new book, which is we're so excited. Darrow's got a new book coming out, it'll be out um and we'll be promoting it in the beginning of of next year. It's called Occupy Till I Come. Great title, Darrell. Uh, and that Till I Come is the return of the king. Um yeah, and uh Darrell, you you said something that I thought was so profound and meaningful to me. You said um that Jesus, when he came as a helpless baby in the manger, um, and then he goes to the cross as the sacrificial lamb, but he doesn't stay that way. He rises as the lion of Judah. And this is the time that we're in now, between his first and second comings, he is the image that we have of Christ right now needs to be correct. It's it's it's not the helpless baby at this point, it's not the it's not the sacrificial lamb, it's the lion of Judah. And I I want you to just, if we could begin there, Darren, just talk a little bit about that. You I know that was a central theme that led you to write this book, and if I could just have you talk a little bit about that. Well, let me uh give a little bit of background to coming my own coming to that point, because that's the point we want to focus on today. In um September, no, October 7th, 2023, Israel was attacked, viciously attacked. And those of you that remember that attack will remember that day, and that day turned changed something in my life. What's going on here? Why is this happening? And that's where I began to reflect on this moment of history. And yesterday, at the beginning of Hanukkah, Jews were slaughtered on a beach in Australia. So we are celebrating Christmas this year, and it is the context, Christmas is the context of our lives, but at this particular moment in history, the Jews are being anti-Semitism is growing around the world at this moment in history. And it is not ironic that Jesus was Jewish. It's not ironic that God chose a slave nation, enslaved in Israel, impoverished slave nation to be his people. And as we celebrate Christmas, we need to realize that Christianity is Jewish. It's rooted in Judaism. And in a sense, the Jews are the canary in the coal mine. When they are attacked, it's not simply an attack on the Jews. It's an attack on what the Jews have given the world. The revelation about the Creator God, the revelation about the moral universe, the revelation of God incarnate in the person of Jesus Christ. And the pagan world hates that. And so Christmas, it's a time to celebration. But let us remember that we are celebrating that the Messiah is a Jew. And he came, as Scott said, to be king. And this is where we come to the sense of the cross, because the cross is the place where justice and mercy meet. It's the place where the moral law and grace come together. And the Old Testament speaks of these things kissing at the cross, this beautiful, beautiful picture of law and grace, justice and mercy meeting at the cross and kissing. So we're celebrating today the birth of Jesus. He was born of a Jewish woman who was just a young girl, maybe thirteen or fourteen years old, living not in Jerusalem, but in the backwaters of Israel. Like the Jews themselves coming out of slavery and poverty in Egypt. She was a child of the poor in a backwater part of the world. And she conceived this baby at the hands of God. This is the this is the wonder, this is the miracle of the birth of the God man. And he was born to be king, but before he could be king, he needed to go to the cross. Because the cross, he went to the cross as the Lamb of God. I just think when we grow up within a Christian tradition, we we learn little songs about Jesus being in the manger, Jesus being meek and mild. And in fact, that meek and mild Jesus offered himself on the cross that we could be saved. But he rose from the dead, not as the meek lamb of God, but he rose from the dead as the Lion of Judah, the warrior king. And I'm overwhelmed myself right now. I'm sorry. What is it that's overwhelming you, Daryl? Just this fact that he was meek and mild that we think of at Christmas. But why was he born to be king? And he came to save us. He came not just to save us individually, but he came to save the world. And that's why he he gave his life to die for that. But we must see the other side of him. He is the Lion of Judah, he is the dragon slayer. And one of the things I love about this is the third stanza where Watts wrote, No more let sins and sorrow grow, nor thorns infest the ground. He comes to make his blessings flow far as the curse is found, far as the curse is found. He came to be king, to be a blessing. Why did God raise up Israel to bless the nations? Why did he raise up Jesus to be the king, to be a blessing to the nations? And so as we celebrate his birth, we must have as part of our knowledge that we're celebrating the birth of a king who is a warrior. He wants his people to work to stop the sin and sorrow. To work to stop the thorns in the ground. Think of a farmer. What if the farmer just said, well, we'll just let the thorns and thistles and weeds grow? The crop would be a poor crop. What's the farmer to do? The farmer is to be in the field and cultivate the field and get rid of the weeds so that the crop can flourish. Jesus was born to be king and he's called his followers to follow him as far as the curse is found. In reclaiming his his rightful kingdom. In reclaiming his rightful kingdom. And this won't be fulfilled ultimately until Jesus returns. But it sets up our task in our lives today. Which is to occupy until he returns. Yeah. I would like to, in light of what, Daryl, you just shared, I'd like to read a passage that is very familiar to Christians and it's often read at Christmas, Isaiah chapter 9, verse 2 through 7. But I think it's very meaningful in a new way, in light of what you just shared, Daryl. So let me just read this if I could. The people who walked in darkness have seen a great light. Those who dwell in a land of deep darkness, on them a light has shone. You have multiplied the nation, you have increased its joy. They rejoice before you with joy at the harvest, as they are glad when they divide the spoil. For the yoke of his burden and the staff of his shoulder, the rod of his oppressor you have broken as on the day of Midian. For every boot of the trampling warrior in battle tumult, and every garment rolled in blood will be burned as fuel for the fire. For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government shall be upon his shoulder. And his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, the Everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and of peace, there will be no end. On the throne of David and over his kingdom to establish it and to uphold it with justice and with righteousness from this time forth and forevermore. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will do this. If I could just make a couple comments. Obviously, this is about Jesus, a son being born, but it's Jesus the king on the throne of David, ruling over his kingdom. And the thing that I just really want to underscore for our listeners and for you guys today is verse 7 of the increase of his government, of his kingdom. And that word increase, I think I just was listening to a a teacher that I really respect recently, and he was talking about. This time that we're in between the first Jesus coming, the first time, the incarnation, the birth of Christ, and his second coming. And the way he described the times, and I've heard many describe them this way, he said, we're living in a time when things are just going to be getting worse and worse and worse. And I was, as I heard him say that, I thought it, I was, I thought of this passage and I thought of that word increase. Yes. And I thought there's something really wrong with that mindset. I know he's not alone. Many evangelicals have this kind of pessimistic, um, hopeless, uh, kind of idea of the times that we live in. But that's a Hindu. That's it's a Hindu concept. Go ahead, Darrell. Yeah, go ahead. Explain. Yeah.
Darrow Miller:Life is on the wheel, and things are going to get worse and worse and worse, and then Jesus is going to come back. This is the Hindu concept of the wheel, and many Christians have unwittingly accepted this concept. And can continue what you're saying now, because this is this is the whole point, the increase of his government. There will be no end.
Scott Allen:Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's this picture of a mighty king who's come back and is reclaiming his kingdom. The increase of his government uh is growing. There will be no end. And I don't want to get into eschatological arguments, but I know some people feel like things will just get better and better and better, and they kind of overlook the fact that we are living in times where there still is death and pain and suffering and injustice. And I I think two things can be true at the same time. I think I think you we can be heading into a time where there can be increasing tumult and uh even evil. Darrell, you mentioned um, you know, the horrific events of October uh two years ago there. You know, so so I think that's that is true. I think Jesus puts it this way, he said, uh, you know, think of the world that we're living in now as a field, and you've got two things growing side by side. You've got wheat, that's the increase of Christ's government there of peace. And you have weeds, they are also growing. But there's going to be a time when they will be uprooted and burned. And you do have fire imagery here in this passage as well. And uh there is going to be a great burning, and all that will remain is the wheat. All that to say, I think this idea that things are just getting worse and worse and worse, it's hard if you're really wanting to kind of represent Christ and his kingdom as we are called to do, uh, to do that with hope and with faith if you think it's kind of futile in some respects, at least until he comes back. Um and I don't think that should be our mindset at all. And Darrow, this gets back to your point. He went to the cross as the lamb, but he rose as the lion. And he is the lion. He is the reigning.
Speaker 5:Yeah, go ahead, Darrow. Trevor Burrus, Jr. No, he's reigning as the lion of Judah. Right now. The king. Yes. Here on earth. Right. He it's not just that he will be king at the end of time and returns.
Scott Allen:And somehow Satan's ruling until then, right? Yeah.
Speaker 5:Yeah, and some somehow Satan's ruling until then. Again, in Isaac Watts' beautiful hymn, um, Joy to the world, the Lord, what is come. Yeah, it's so powerful. Not has come, come, not will come, is come. Jesus is the eternal present tense. Amen. He is God incarnate. He stands outside of time, and yet as a babe in a manger, he entered time. And he was at that moment, as he was in eternity, the I am. And Jesus claims that name for himself a number of times. I am, I am, which is what the Father, the God of the universe says before Abraham was I am. I am is speaking to you, has sent you. So Jesus is King now, whether we recognize it or not.
Scott Allen:And why is that a kingdom?
Speaker 5:The kingdom and its fullness won't be until the end of time. But we are to live before the face of God, Quorum Deo, and we are to live recognizing that Christ is come, and he is king.
Scott Allen:Trevor Burrus, Jr. He's he's the victorious king. You know, he's he is uh the picture of Jesus at the cross is a picture, and we see this in Colossians, of Jesus triumphing over the grave, triumphing over Satan at the cross, victorious. Um why is that picture of him as the lion, the victorious king, important, Darrell, for Christians today? Because I know that was part of why you wanted to write this book.
Speaker 5:Because he says to Christians, come follow me. Follow me where? To where the battle is the hardest. Follow me to the very gates of hell. And he says the gates of hell will not prevail. Gates are defensive, and the gates of hell will not prevail against what? God's people. Who's on the offensive? We are to be on the offensive. In the thing that you mentioned a few minutes ago, who's on the offensive? Satan's on the offensive, and things are getting worse and worse and worse until Christ comes back. No. Christ is come. And he has engaged in battle as the warrior king. He is the lion, the dragon slayer is one of his names. Amen. And we are to follow this king to the dark places, to the evil places, in our communities, in our cities, and not try and stay away from them in our own little uh Christian bubbles.
Scott Allen:This passage, Darrow, Isaiah 9, begins with light. The people who walk in darkness have seen a great light, and that's another recurring theme. Satan's kingdom is likened to the kingdom of darkness. Um, and into that dark kingdom a light has come and it has shone. And the apostle John begins his uh great epistle um with this same imagery. And and the you know, when John says, Um help me out, guys.
Luke Allen:In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God. He was with God in the beginning, through him all things were made, and without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not uh understandable.
Scott Allen:Darkness has not, it says, I think there's different translations, but the the one I like is overcome it, which is also this idea of light pushing back dark, which is what it does. That's what light does. Guys, I'd like to bring in uh Luke uh and Sean and Tim. I'd like to bring in you on this theme that we're talking about and and and get your thoughts as well on on this idea of Jesus who was born in a humble stable as a helpless baby, but now has rose as the Lion of Judah, the conquering king, and we are called into mission with him, into the reclaiming of his kingdom. That's that's really our purpose. Guys, what are your reflections and your thoughts on that? I want to hear from you guys first.
Luke Allen:I guess. Yeah, go ahead, go ahead, Tim.
Tim Williams:Yeah, I'll I'll just give a sentence and you can bounce off it or go where you want. But when, you know, I as I heard you talking about you know, Jesus and his role, you know, I'm thinking God has his people where he wants them. You know, uh, it's not just you know, Jesus, the conquering king, but he has he has his people, he has his followers, he has his disciples, and they are you know pushing back the darkness with their lives. They are taking the blessing as far as the curse is found, where there's thorns and thistles, they are cultivating a garden, they are bringing beauty. Um, you know, we've uh just recently been in the office talking about going to Christmas concerts, and they they get, you know, people are applying their skills and their gifts to uh to bring beauty through sound and music and art. And uh so, you know, they we do it in really hard places too, you know, but uh but even in in hard places, the people of God bring beauty and light and love.
Scott Allen:And you know, no one's left out of that. Yeah, no one's left out of that, Tim. And I I I want to just add something to this as well that when Jesus rose, he promised not to leave us alone, but he sent a helper, the Spirit of God, the very Spirit of Christ lives in us. So the light that we bring in his name is his light. You know, it's in other words, it's not like he's up in heaven just waiting to see what we'll do now. He's actually doing it through us, right? You know, and I I just and he gets all the credit at the end of the day. That's why when uh we meet him and Lord willing we hear those words, well done, good and faithful servant, we bow down before him and we take the crown and give it back to him. Uh, anyways, I just think it's important to realize that the light is all his, but he calls us to be people of the light, to be key people of the victorious risen king, and and and uh and this is this is this is this is our position. Yeah. But you're right, Tim. I like that about the beauty too. It's light, it's truth, it's beauty, it's those what uh church fathers have called the great the three great transcendentals, truth, goodness, and beauty of the kingdom. Yes.
Shawn Carson:Yeah, I think the one thing that stands out to me is the word shalom. I know we've talked about that lots of times as well. Um, but I think yeah, you know, in Isaiah 61, um the first few verses talk about the kind of shalom that I think uh, you know, most of the churches bought into. It's this personal salvation and this personal comfort and this personal um redemption and you know, this longing for restoration. But then the rest of the chapter talks about the outworkings of that and what does that look like. And it and it looks just like this it looks like God's people being present, following Jesus, as Darrow just mentioned, into the world to bring his shalom to every area of our lives and and to the world around us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's a good thing.
Speaker 5:Yeah for the peace, the shalom peace of Jerusalem. And the world, I think.
Luke Allen:Yeah. Um, when I wrote this little outline for you guys to to follow last week, I had no idea how how in depth we would go and how rich this would be. I'm really enjoying this discussion. This is this is really making my Christmas. This is awesome. It's giving me a whole new perspective on this. And this is what I was kind of hoping for is um, you know, in the big four chapters of history that we talk about all the time creation, fall, redemption, restoration. Um, what we were hoping to do today is just really put uh a pin on the fact that Christmas is that point at which we leave the period of the of the the the the darkness, the fall. They were walking in darkness and yet they have seen a a great light. The pin is Christmas. And now we still live in a fallen world, obviously, till Jesus comes back, but we have hope. There's there's this restoration that we are a part of. And it's not a restoration that just happened and now you know it doesn't affect the rest of history. No, it happened, and now we are in the process of reconciling all things to himself, as it says in where is that, Colossians? Like we the this process of restoring, right? Or as as we already said in Joy to the World, He came to make His blessings known far as the curse is found, his blessings are are being known throughout the world. This process of restoring, are we gonna do it fully? No, but we have this job to do, and I love it because it gives us this mission, this purpose. And um what I think is so interesting is in the big worldview questions that everyone asks in their life, right? The big worldview questions are, Darryl, you I love the way that you explained these a couple weeks ago to me. Very simple questions. Question number one, where did it all start? Question number two, uh, what went wrong? Right, there's there's the there's evil in the world, this world seems broken, what went wrong? Question number three, how do we fix it? Question number four, what's next? What's after this life? What's at the end of history? And what I think is so interesting about those questions is they align perfectly with the four worldview the four the four chapters of history. You know, where did it all start? That's creation. What went wrong? That's the fall. How do we fix it? That's redemption. What's next? Restoration. So if we don't get at if our worldview, our biblical worldview, doesn't know the answer to how do we fix it and what do we do about it, the evil in the world, the fall, then you know, we're not really going to be living a fully biblical worldview, and we're not really gonna have a purpose and a mission for this life right now. So it's so cool to connect Christmas to that what do we do now about the evil in the world? What do each one of us have to do? And I like what you said, Tim, is you know, God's placed us where he wants us. And um who who said that quote? God God has placed us where he wants us. The question is, yeah, are we are we Are we being his people where we're at? Are we being his people where we're at? Exactly. And that's the question that you know I'm always asking myself, am I being who God wants me to be where I'm at right now? And I think a big answer to that question is are you restoring? Are you being a part of the the reconciliation of this world? And what does that look like in your life? Like you said, Tim, that brings bring beauty into the world. That means bring shalom.
Darrow Miller:Yeah, the two events happened with Marilyn and I this weekend. On Saturday, we went to a a beautiful concert of a men's choir here in Phoenix. And uh I think it's eighty eighty male voices singing, and it was their Christmas concert. Lasted about an hour and a half, but there was only one of the songs that they sang in that hour and a half that was a traditional old Christmas carol. Everything else was jingle bells, dashing through the snow, uh jingle bell rock, jingle bell rock, yeah. All of it was the music that we have at Christmas that's been formed in a non-Christian culture. Getting take Christ out of Christmas. And you know, in some states they're having non-Christmas celebrations because they won't mention the word Christmas or the word Christ, the name Christ, but they're having a holiday celebration. And I was thinking yesterday in church, as part of Advent, people dressed up as shepherds, uh the pastor's wife had a has a baby, and he was the pastor was Joseph, and the wife was Mary, and the little baby was in a manger, and half the congregation was in this with costumes on portraying the birth of Jesus. And as a congregation, we sang probably six or seven of the traditional hymns. And I said to Marilyn afterwards that kids in this church, they're hearing the story. The story is being told there, but Christmas in America today, we don't tell the story anymore. It's a story of go to the mall, buy things. We need to go back to the manger. To Christ is come, and his is coming has a importance for today because he is come today. Do we remember that story? Do we tell that story? And someone mentioned a few minutes ago about light in the world, and I think of a stadium. I was in a stadium one time, and everybody had candles, but none of them were lit. And one person they lit one candle, and that person lit the candles of the people all around them, and that person lit the candles of the people all around them. And you watched as the stadium in a matter of minutes was filled with light. That's how we are to be in this season. Okay, Christ is come. He is the light of the world. We are to be reflections of that light in all the dark places. So let's not fear the dark places and let's not fear the consequences of going to the dark places. Let's bring the light to those dark places.
Scott Allen:Darrell, if I could just uh add a thought, you know, this uh picture of the candle being lit in a stadium. I we've all experienced that at Christmas. Typically, we have a candlelight service or something like that, where everyone's got a candle and it starts with one candle being lit. And what's always surprised me, like you were saying, is how quickly the entire stadium or room becomes lit. You know, everybody's got their candle lighted. Uh that happens very quickly, and um you know, it but as you Your part in it is pretty small. You light the candle of a neighbor, maybe another neighbor, you know, and and but it's that multiplicative effect. And I think there's something about that that's really profound. You know, the part that we play in spreading the light, for us, from our vantage point, may be small, may seem small. It may seem as small as loving your wife or raising godly children. Uh you think, what difference does that make? But but think about it in light of the candle in the stadium. It it can happen kind of quickly if everyone is faithful in doing that part that they have to play. And uh so I'll just add that as a thought or reflection onto what you just shared there. Guys, any um any other thoughts? I I I want to end with uh another verse, but before I do that, I I'd like to uh just invite you guys to add any final kind of reflections on this uh theme that we're talking about, uh putting Christmas into the larger story. And this it's the story of a king reclaiming his rightful kingdom. Uh, and that king today in the present is the Lion of Judah. He is the reigning king, the victorious king. And we are uh, as followers of Christ, we are uh members of his kingdom. Uh we have been called into that kingdom to be representatives of that kingdom, to be ambassadors is probably the better word, ambassadors of that kingdom in a dark place.
Luke Allen:Well, I just I just think of uh how how simple this can be. You know, obviously it it can be grandiose, you know, we are in a battle against darkness, um, which is really inspiring and exciting and uh a little scary, but also kind of awesome. Uh but also it can be quite simple, you know, it's this um it's restoring things back to the way they were supposed to be in the beginning. Where? Far as the curse is found, which is everywhere, because the fall has affected everything, including ourselves. So it's these simple steps that we can take. It's it's it's it's decorating your house with lights, right? Bringing some beauty into your neighborhood. It's um it's uh planting a garden. It's um sharing cookies, you know, it's it's these little things that we can do. And we we're always like, well, those aren't really important things compared to other things that we can do as Christians, you know. Uh I think they are important, especially if we're all doing them. That's bringing that little piece of light, lighting your candle. And uh it doesn't go unnoticed, you know, even if it's just by your family. Um so I think of myself, and you know, what are little ways I can restore this world back to Eden in a way? And there's there's plenty of them every day all over all around me in my work, in my house, with my friends, relationships, um, little ways to restore the restore the light. And in so doing, you're you're you're playing a part in the battle of history, which is exciting.
Scott Allen:Well said, Luke. Damn it.
Speaker 4:I hear the word uh yeah yeah, I hear the word generosity in um in some of the things that you're saying, Luke, and how how this uh season of uh remembering Christ's birth uh leads us to to spaces of generosity communally and otherwise. And I think I guess I'm reminded too of just you know, God is working all things together for good for those who love him, who are called according to his purpose. Um, you know, as we talk about uh Christ conquering death, you know, what do we have to be afraid of? Um we know who's going to be victorious in the end, and and we know uh who is working all things together for good on a daily basis. So uh it's just a profound encouragement to us in a in a society that is um riddled with a lot of fear these days.
Speaker 5:And do we live in the reality of that? We're living within the reality of a story. It's either the story that things are getting worse and worse and worse. And just eat, drink, and be merry because tomorrow you die. You know, it's it's that that's one story. No, the other story, the true story, is that he is risen. He was born, he lived, he died, he is risen, and he is risen as the Lion of Judah. Let's live in the reality of that.
Scott Allen:If I could tie those thoughts together around the fear knot as well, I'm reminded of, I think it's in Hebrews, this passage that says that the usurper, the false king Satan, his greatest weapon was fear, and specifically the fear of death, which is the greatest fear that most people have. You know, wow, maybe my reputation will be ruined, or I'll end up in prison. These are all fears that you can have. Bad things can happen to you. I'll get cancer, some kind of disease. But the ultimate one is death, and that was his greatest weapon of control. Um, but Christ, the victorious king, rose, conquered death, and took away, it says in Hebrews. Yeah, it took away the fear of death. And we walk about, I think of the Apostle Paul, you know, he was always, you know, kind of, you know, imprisoned and beaten, and he was threatened with death. And, you know, his basic response to all that was he lived in that victory of Christ so deeply that he was like, fine, go, that's good. Go ahead, kill me. You know, for for for what did he say in Philippians? For you know, to to live as die and to or to live as Christ today. To live as Christ and to die is gain, like, good, that'll be great. What kind of victorious life uh would would that look like if we all live that way, you know, and there isn't fear there, you know, that's fear's been disarmed there. So I'll just tie that thought into what both of you guys were sharing.
Luke Allen:So I love that. That reminds me of my favorite, my favorite verse, um, which is also in Hebrews, Hebrews 13, verses um six and eight. Um well, also you can start a little earlier. Never will I leave you, never will I forsake you. So we can say with confidence, the Lord is my helper, I will not be afraid. What can man do to me? Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. He is the eternal present tense, right? We're we're we are standing behind Christ the warrior king. So what can man do to me? I love that that mindset. He was never gonna leave us, never gonna forsake us.
Speaker 5:You know, joy to the world. The Lord is come. Amen. Let Earth receive her king.
Scott Allen:I I do think, Darrow, that you know, most of us have in our mind, as because of the Christmas story, and there's truth to it. You you at the beginning of our talk, you talked about the the cross is where mercy and justice meet. And there's only the biblical story, by the way, brings these things together. No other story, no other worldview does that. And we need both mercy and justice. We need, in a sense, we need Jesus to be the meek and mild sacrificial lamb to take away the sins of the world, to humbly go to the cross and die that shameful death that he did. And it's the same Jesus that rises in victory as the King of Kings. It's not a different Jesus, it's the same Jesus. But we we I think our minds tend to be shaped around one of these images and not the other. And I agree fully with you, Dara. We need to have this other this other picture of Jesus in our minds right now. And if I could just end our time together with uh what I think is one of the most vivid descriptions of Jesus the warrior king in Scripture. Um, this is from Revelation 19, 11 through 16. I saw heaven standing open, and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called faithful and true. With justice he judges and wages war. His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Sorry, I'm just adding that there. The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses, and dressed in fine linen, white and clean, and coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. He will rule them with an iron scepter. And that's a quote from Psalm 2, which is very powerful as well. He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty on his robe and on his thigh. He has this name written, the King of Kings and Lord of the Lords. That's the same Jesus that was born in the manger. Just think it's important for us to have that in our minds fixed. Uh, this picture of this warrior king that we follow into, as Darrow, you said, into battle, uh, into the very gates of hell. Uh he will be victorious. He is victorious and will be victorious. Um we all are facing these are difficult times we live in, dark times. And uh I don't know how else you can face the darkness of these times apart from having this picture of Jesus, this victorious king, firmly fixed in your mind. Um that yeah, that I I d you you know, I just I just want to encourage everyone that's listening to have this picture in their minds of Jesus at this Christmas season. Guys, thanks. This has been really rich, and I appreciate so much your your thoughts and your reflections. And uh as Luke, you began by uh just thanking our listeners from all over the world. I too want to add my thanks. Thank you guys for tuning in and and uh just helping this podcast to grow and uh uh sharing it with your friends, giving it uh four-star reviews uh on your favorite podcast uh.
Luke Allen:Five if you want, that's okay too.
Scott Allen:Oh, five. If you can go all the way to five, yeah, that's great. Yeah, that's good too. Uh we are so blessed to have you tuning in. It means the world to us. So thanks, thanks so much. And I too just want to add my uh wish, wish, and blessings for a wonderful Christmas season.
Luke Allen:Yep. Merry Christmas, guys. Merry Christmas.
