Ideas Have Consequences
Everything that we see around us is the product of ideas, of ideologies, of worldviews. That's where everything starts. Worldviews are not all the same, and the differences matter a lot. How do you judge a tree? By its fruits. How do you judge a worldview? By its physical, tangible, observable fruit. The things it produces. Ideas that are noble and true produce beauty, abundance, and human flourishing. Poisonous ideas produce ugliness. They destroy and dehumanize. It really is that simple. Welcome to Ideas Have Consequences, the podcast of Disciple Nations Alliance, where we prepare followers of Christ to better understand the true ideas that lead to human flourishing while fighting against poisonous ideas that destroy nations. Join us, and prepare your minds for action!
Ideas Have Consequences
Teaching Kids to Identify Truth in a Culture of Deception | Elizabeth Urbanowicz
Kids today are bombarded with competing worldviews, shaping their beliefs long before adulthood. Despite growing up in Christian homes, many adopt cultural thinking and values that run contrary to biblical truth. This week, we sit down with Elizabeth Urbanowicz, founder of Foundation Worldview, to discuss how parents and educators can really equip children to think biblically and critically about the ideas they encounter daily.
What you will hear:
- Why traditional discipleship often falls short in today’s culture
- How to teach kids to distinguish between truth, falsehood, and feelings
- Practical steps for parents to build a strong biblical foundation
If you’re wondering how to prepare the next generation to stand firm in truth, this episode is a must-listen!
- View the transcript, leave comments, and check out recommended resources on the Episode Landing Page!
- Learn More about the 10 Words to Heal Our Broken World Bible Study
Be sure to checkout Foundation Worldview's curriculum for homeschool, church, and Christian schools which can transform your child's thinking from blind belief to critical, evidence-based faith. Their easy-to-use, video-based lessons are designed to equip your child with biblical literacy and critical thinking skills, so their faith in Christ remains strong into adulthood. Use discount code IDEAS10 to save $10 on a family license.
and so, as we look at the whole of scripture, there's so much that scripture teaches about what it means to be human, and it makes sense of so many of these big cultural issues that we're wrestling with. So I just want to really help parents and grandparents and church leaders and church members and christian educators just catch a bigger vision that it's not just about teaching our kids to behave right and teaching them Bible stories. It's about teaching them to view all of life through the lens of scripture, because scripture speaks to all of life.
Luke Allen:Hi friends, welcome to. Ideas have Consequences. The podcast of the Disciple Nations Alliance. Here on this show we examine how our mission as Christians is to not only spread the gospel around the world to all the nations, but our mission also includes to be the hands and feet of God, to transform the nations to increasingly reflect the truth, goodness and beauty of God's kingdom. Tragically, the church has largely neglected this second part of her mission and today most Christians have little influence on their surrounding cultures. Join us on this podcast as we rediscover what it means for each of us to disciple the nations and to create Christ-honoring cultures that reflect the character of the living God Nations and to create Christ-honoring cultures that reflect the character of the living God.
Scott Allen:Well, welcome again everyone to another episode of Ideas have Consequences. This is the podcast of the Disciple Nations Alliance. I'm Scott Allen, I'm the president here at the DNA and joined by my two friends and team members, luke Allen and Tim Williams, from North Carolina and Tim Williams from North Carolina, and thrilled today to have a very special guest with us.
Elizabeth Urbanowicz:Elizabeth Urbanowicz. Did I say that correctly? Elizabeth, you did. I'm really impressed. That's not a name that rolls off the tongue very easily.
Scott Allen:That's a great name, urbanowicz. I like that. Yeah, elizabeth is one of the founders of a wonderful ministry called Foundation Worldview and we're going to learn more about that. It's specifically focusing on biblical worldview teaching and training as it relates to children and their education, and she's got a lot to say. She's got resources available and we are excited to hear about it.
Scott Allen:Elizabeth, I want to just give our listeners a little bit of a background.
Scott Allen:I'm going to read some things off of the website there at the foundationworldviewcom website that explain a little bit about who you are and feel free to just fill in some of the gaps or give us a little bit more on this as well.
Scott Allen:But it starts by saying here Elizabeth is a follower of Jesus and she's passionate about equipping children or kids to understand the truth of a Christian worldview. She holds a bachelor's degree from Jordan College in elementary education and Spanish and a master's degree from Northern Illinois University in literacy education, as well as a master's degree from Northern Illinois University in Literacy Education, as well as a master's degree in Christian apologetics from a small little Christian college that some of you might have heard of, biola University in Southern California. She began her professional career as an elementary school teacher in a Christian school. Several years into her teaching, elizabeth realized that, despite being raised in Christian homes and attending Christian schools and being active in church, many of her students thought more like the culture than like Christ, and she began searching for curricular materials that would equip her students to think critically, helping them to understand Christianity as a worldview that lines up with reality. And that led her into the ministry that she is now involved in with Foundation Worldview, which Elizabeth why, don't you tell it?
Scott Allen:let's just begin and I know, luke, you're going to lead off with some questions here but just tell us a little bit about, besides yourself, about the ministry. What is it? What kind of resources do you have? And maybe a little bit more about that motivation. I'm really intrigued by what you put here in your bio.
Luke Allen:Yeah, and not to cut you off, Elizabeth, but you were the founder of Foundation Worldview, is that correct?
Elizabeth Urbanowicz:That is correct.
Luke Allen:Yeah, just to clarify that. Yeah, okay, that's great.
Elizabeth Urbanowicz:Yeah, yeah. So, as you read in my bio, I started out as a teacher in a Christian school and now I run Foundation Worldview. And our goal at Foundation Worldview is to provide Christian parents, ministry leaders and Christian educators with easy to implement resources to equip children under the age of 12 to think critically and biblically and to ultimately understand that the age of 12 to think critically and biblically and to ultimately understand that the biblical worldview lines up with reality in the way that no other worldview does. And we know that doing this can sometimes feel overwhelming or complicated. So our goal is to come alongside busy Christian adults and, you know, just link arms with them and provide resources to do this. And this really started in my classroom.
Elizabeth Urbanowicz:I never set out to think, oh, I'm going to start a ministry, I just loved my students and I saw this gap in their understanding and being able to translate what they were learning in Bible class or in Sunday school or scripture memory, and actually use that to evaluate just the countless ideas that were coming their way every day. Because when you actually look at the research, because of the prevalence of technology, which is not always a bad thing, we are using technology right now. You know, praise God to be able to record from all different parts of the country, but because of the prevalence of technology, in one year of a child's life they're going to receive more competing ideas, or they're going to be faced with more competing ideas than most humans throughout history have been faced with in their entire lives. And so, while god is immutable, he never changes and his word never changes, and it is completely true.
Elizabeth Urbanowicz:The way in which we need to train children to carefully evaluate the ideas that come their way looks different today than it did 20, 30, 40, 50 years ago. So I just set off on a journey to try to train the students that God had placed in my care to think critically and biblically through every idea they encountered, and all the materials that I could find were created for high school or college students or adults. And I was so grateful that these resources existed because, you know, we do want our high school and college students and adults to be able to think critically and biblically. But I thought, wow, you know if I'm seeing this issue with the eight and nine year olds that God has placed in my classroom and we wait until they're 15, 16, 17, 18 plus to train them in this way. We have lost so much ground and so when, I couldn't find any resources like this for elementary students.
Elizabeth Urbanowicz:What I did is I was like okay, I better start reading some books. So I started reading books, started attending different seminars and workshops and just created a class after school for third through sixth graders where we looked at big questions that every worldview has to answer. We looked at how does christianity answer them, how do other competing worldviews answer them, what actually lines up with what we find in the world around us. And this part I can't take credit for. Like my students, they just took that information and ran with it like moms were calling me. They were like okay, so my son wants to pause family movie night and evaluate the character's worldview?
Elizabeth Urbanowicz:like I don't know how to do this, can you help me? And then teachers from the fourth, fifth and sixth grade were coming down and were like how are you getting these kids in your after-school worldview class to think this deeply about mathematics and literature and science and history? And I'm kind of like I don't know. It's just like I just you know, giving few ideas, helping them think, and they're applying it all over. And so when people saw this in just really incredible transformation in the kids that were in that class, I started getting contact, like phone contacts, from all over the country saying we've heard what's going on, how can we get our hands on your materials? And I was like I am a third grade teacher, I am not a Christian publishing house, like I don't have anything for you. You know, go out, read some books, I'm sure you'll be fine. And everyone was just like nah, tell us when you have this published.
Elizabeth Urbanowicz:And so that kept happening for several years. And so it was. At that point it became clear okay, this is a need. You know that people all across the country, and now even all across the world, are feeling. So that's when I went back to Biola for that master's degree in Christian apologetics and started Foundation Worldview so that I could work full time. And now you know a team of us are working full time on providing these resources for parents and grandparents, and church leaders and Christian educators.
Scott Allen:Wow, just on those resources, elizabeth, that's wonderful. I love that you put your finger on a need, a gap, which was, you know there's plenty of curriculum and even organizations focused on training and biblical worldview, biblical worldview thinking. But there was a gap in your experience with younger people and I'm so glad that you really saw that and stepped into that. So you developed kind of curricular resources that are available on the website. But is it you mentioned it's a kind of a after-school type of thing, kind of a supplemental kind of a thing or how would you describe that supplemental to what kids are, or is it a full curriculum that, like, a school could use as part of their materials for study?
Elizabeth Urbanowicz:That's a good question. So when I first started teaching the comparative worldview curriculum that I had designed, I taught it in an after-school class, where now, at Foundation Worldview, we have six curriculums out that are in comparative worldview studies, biblical worldview studies, biblical literacy and then biblical sexuality, and so these materials, they are supplemental in that we don't create math curriculum, we don't create history curriculum, we don't create language arts curriculum, but we create curriculum that either families or churches or schools can implement once a week. So you just set aside a half hour to an hour once a week and go through one of our lessons, and the lessons are all video based, so all of the teaching is done for you. There's just a few things you have to print out that accompany the video lessons, and so the goal is really to make it as easy and as streamlined as possible.
Elizabeth Urbanowicz:And also, we know that a lot of adults who are taking their kids through these materials. They have a passion for this and they understand the importance for this, but they might never have been trained this way themselves, and so our goal in having all video-based lessons is that, if the adults who is going through this course with the child has never been trained in this way, that they're getting the education right alongside them. Because I know for myself as a teacher, when there were areas in education that I had not received proper education in, it was so scary for me to teach those subjects and I always save them for the end of the day and kind of hoped maybe we'd run out of time for them, because I knew like, for example, spelling. I'm a terrible speller. I grew up in the whole language era, which is kind of the philosophy of like kids don't need phonics, you know. Like kids don't need to learn how to actually read, just like put them in a text rich environment and they'll figure it out. Well, some kids figured it out.
Elizabeth Urbanowicz:I didn't, and so I never actually learned how to spell, and so when I had to teach our school spelling curriculum, I was scared to death, and it wasn't until somebody came alongside me when I reached out and I was like, hey, I don't know how to do this, can you actually come in my classroom and teach this for a few months so I can watch you?
Elizabeth Urbanowicz:And it wasn't until somebody did that that I was like, oh, okay, I get it, I understand it. Now I can teach it. And that's the goal with these lessons is we want parents and church leaders and Christian educators, even if they've never been trained in these different subject matters, to be able to say, okay, I can watch this right alongside these kids God has placed in my care, and then I'm going to be equipped to continue guiding them in that way. So, yeah, so we have curriculum at Foundation Worldview that's for kids ages four and up, eight and up, and then 10 and up, and it's especially for families that might have, you know, like a four-year-old, a six-year-old, a seven-year-old. It can be flexible and can be used over multiple years so that parents can work with their the children that are in their home.
Luke Allen:That's great. Yeah, and guys, we'll include a lot of links and information about Foundation Worldview in the episode page so you can check that out in the show notes. Elizabeth, I heard a stat recently that really motivated me. I kind of knew it, but it definitely motivated me to get on the ball because, uh, I have two young kids, one's two, one's five months and the stat is something like 80 to 90%, the vast majority of someone's worldview is formed by the age of 10. Is that correct?
Elizabeth Urbanowicz:Well, I haven't seen that particular stat but I have, you know, like, heard, like Barna, research and other things, yeah, that talk about how, even before kids reach the teenage years, that their worldview is really solidified. And so I don't doubt, you know, that that is accurate, because even when you think about how many things, like you said, you have a five-month-old Luke and like even when you think about how many things your five-year-old has already learned or sorry, five-month-old, I said that wrong five-month-old.
Elizabeth Urbanowicz:Even when you think about how many things your five-month-old has already learned. You know, even just the first day in the hospital, like when he or she would cry, they learned that somebody is going to come and somebody is going to make sure I'm warm, somebody's going to make sure I'm fed, somebody's going to make sure that I'm changed when I cry. So all of these things that are developing even in the first few months of life, that are still, you know, even solidifying worldview categories at that young of an age. And so, yes, I don't doubt that the majority of the worldview is solidified before the teen years are reached, which is why it is so important to be intentional with what we are doing with the children in our care, because a lot of times it's very interesting.
Elizabeth Urbanowicz:A lot of times people will come to our ministry when they have teenagers and none of us on our staff are experts in teens.
Elizabeth Urbanowicz:Like we might be able to offer a nugget of wisdom here and there, but we're like.
Elizabeth Urbanowicz:We're sorry, but the good news is there's many other organizations that do this for teens, so we point them in the general direction, but a lot of times Christian adults don't look for any resources in worldview formation or biblical literacy or critical thinking until they're already seeing the fruit of what has been happening over the past decade or so. You know they see their child start to question the faith, or they see really negative attitudes, or they see their child drawn towards a certain type of sin, or they see their child buying into the lies of the culture, and then they try to do something. Now God has done stranger things than work in the heart of a rebellious teenager, you know. So it's never too late, it's never without hope. But what we're trying to help people understand at Foundation Worldview is that rotten fruit that's growing in the teen years Its root is in the early childhood and elementary years, and so we are wise to be very intentional in what we're doing in worldview formation as early as we can.
Luke Allen:Yeah, absolutely. Unfortunately, though, here's another stat, so this one did come out of Barna. This was, I don't know when the stat came out, you might have seen it, though. It says while 95% of surveyed children's ministry leaders say the home should be the primary source of discipleship, only 51% of parents believe that it is their role, again, to be the primary source of discipleship. That was shocking to me. On one hand, I think many parents might not know what discipleship means and that might be the confusion there, but also 51% of parents don't think it's their primary responsibility over the church to be the discipler of their children. You know, if you don't see that as a parent, then you know how are you gonna, in those early years especially?
Elizabeth Urbanowicz:really, you know, take that, take that opportunity you have in front of you to point your kids in ages one through five even towards a biblical worldview and towards answering those important life questions through a biblical lens out of the house, or like I'm a grandparent or I've never had children, don't underestimate the value that you can play in encouraging parents to be the primary disciple makers of their children, because now I'm not in every kid's, you know, like I'm in very few kids ministries because I just attend one church. But I would venture to guess that a lot of those kids ministry leaders, even though they say they believe that discipleship is the parent's primary job, probably most of where their efforts are going into is planning weekly programming. Think how that number of 51% might change if those kids ministry leaders stop focusing so much on programming and started focusing on coming alongside parents and supporting them and even awakening them to the fact that they are the primary disciple makers. I mean, even before we went, we went live with us.
Elizabeth Urbanowicz:You know, scott, you were sharing with me a little bit more about, you know the, the DNA philosophy and like where it came from. And you were sharing how, when you were in relief efforts, you saw that you can't just bring funds into an underdeveloped nation, that you actually have to start with the worldview, because if that worldview foundation isn't there, those funds aren't going to lead ultimately to human flourishing. And it's similar with kids ministry. If kids ministry is focused just on the programming on Sunday and Wednesdays, then it's really not going to do what it was designed to do, because it's the parents that really need to take on that job. So for anybody who's listening and is thinking well, I don't have kids in my home right now you still have a vital role to play in helping the parents in your local church disciple their children. Well, by coming alongside of them, you know helping them understand that they are the primary disciple makers. Loving their kids, you know playing the role that God has called you to play in your local church. That is so foundational.
Scott Allen:Yeah, I just want to underscore the importance of what you're saying, elizabeth, and appreciate that. You know, I've been attending evangelical churches since I became a Christian in my high school years so many years now, and I've never. You know great churches, but I've never seen a program like that. You know, I've never seen that vision of a church to say how do we equip? And to me that's what the church is. That's a role of the pastors. Really it's an equipping role. It's equipping the saints to do the work of ministry.
Scott Allen:And there's no more important ministry than the ministry of parents in the home, especially when their kids are young and kind of in these early formation years.
Scott Allen:But the idea seems to be just send your kids here to Sunday school, get them into Sunday school. If you're a parent you can volunteer for Sunday school, all good, but you know it's kind of like we'll take care of it, we'll disciple your kids, and I think that's exactly the wrong message to be sending. As important as that is that you know, as you're saying, you are the primary discipler of your children and we will equip you. I know you probably don't even know how to begin to do that, but you know that's our job you know as pastors at a church here is to equip you to do that, and what a great resource for them to use. You know your resources because, like you say, it's video-based and they can just learn as they're going how to disciple kids.
Scott Allen:And let me follow that up with a question too, because I think when we talk about discipling children or anybody, what's the difference between what a lot of evangelicals have in their minds when we talk about discipleship and specifically biblical worldview discipleship, Because I think those are different things. What do you have to say about that, elizabeth?
Elizabeth Urbanowicz:Yes, I think a lot of times—now I'm not in everybody's minds, I'm only in mine, but, from my observations.
Elizabeth Urbanowicz:Yeah, from my observations, I think a lot of times when people think about discipleship, they're strictly focused on behavior. You know how is this child behaving at home and how are they behaving in public. Now, please don't get me wrong. Scripture is clear that God has called parents to train their children to live rightly so. Behavior, you know like working on our children's behavior is an important part of discipleship. However, when we're thinking about their worldview, we don't want them to just behave right. We want them to think, to love and to live rightly so. It's more than just having kids memorize verses that are going to change their behavior. Is that important to have biblical discipline? Absolutely so. Please don't hear me saying that I'm negating that, because that is important, but in order to develop a biblical worldview, we actually need to teach our kids how to think biblically. So, rather than just teaching them different Bible stories, we need to actually equip them to understand how does the Bible speak to important questions, for example, nowadays you know we're recording this podcast in 2025.
Elizabeth Urbanowicz:There is so much confusion in the United States and in other westernized nations over gender and sexuality, where really gender and sexuality boils down to a question of identity, of what does it mean to be human? Identity of what does it mean to be human? Because if we are the accidental result of blind, unguided evolution, then we have no purpose. We have no goal except for that which we make for ourselves. And so if I feel like you know what, even though I'm biologically female, I actually feel like I am male inside. I get to change that identity because I have no fixed identity. I have no fixed purpose. Where we want to help our kids understand, how does the biblical worldview, how does all of scripture speak to what it means to be human? And there's so many facets of this. So this is like not a question that you answer in one day with your child. This is something you know. You spend days, weeks, maybe even months studying.
Elizabeth Urbanowicz:But look at, what does scripture teach about what it means to be human? I mean, even if you just open up the first three chapters of Genesis and spent a week there, there's so much that's revealed. You know, genesis 1, 26 through 27 reveals that we are created in God's image, that we are created as distinctly male or distinctly female in God's image. Genesis 1.28 talks about our purpose, that we are to represent God on this earth through being fruitful and multiplying, filling the earth and subduing it, that we actually have a role, that we are God's stewards of this earth. Then you read Genesis, chapter 2, you see the institution of marriage and how God instituted marriage as a lifelong covenant between one man and one woman, that God didn't give this covenant to any other species on the planet, that it is only humans that have the privilege of entering into this covenant that God designed between one man and one woman.
Elizabeth Urbanowicz:Then you look at Genesis three and you figure out this is why the world is the way it is that Adam and Eve, our first parents. They rebelled against God and when they did, everything broke that immediately. Their communion with one another was broken, their communion with God was broken. Even their communion with themselves having an accurate understanding of who they were and what they had done was broken. And so, as we look at the whole of scripture, there's so much that scripture teaches about what it means to be human and it makes sense of so many of these big cultural issues that we're wrestling with. So I just want to really help parents and grandparents and church leaders and church members and Christian educators just catch a bigger vision that it's not just about teaching our kids to behave right and teaching them Bible stories. It's about teaching them to view all of life through the lens of scripture, because scripture speaks to all of life.
Scott Allen:Yeah, to me what you just said right there really puts the point on it. You know, this is the distinction to me between what many understand as discipleship and worldview. Discipleship because I think that we are shaped in the West to have kind of a bifurcated worldview. We at DNA call it a sacred, secular worldview and issues of faith and Christianity, church. Discipleship, all of it is kind of put into a particular category.
Scott Allen:You know we call it the higher category, the more spiritual category but then it's separated from a whole lot of life. You know things like marriage and family and vocations and sex and that's all kind of political, cultural stuff and the culture around us teaches us that. You know, you should keep your faith separate from those kind of things. And very often we go along with that and we say you know, the Church is good for spiritual things, for salvation, eternal life, you know, ethical living or whatever it is, but it doesn't speak to, certainly doesn't speak to things like even how we shape education, much less mathematics or science or you know, those are kind of in another. You know component in our thinking. We separate, you know these things, biblical worldview.
Scott Allen:Discipleship, in my mind, is breaking that down and saying no, that's a false separation. We live in one world. There's one God who is the Lord over all of it, and the Bible teaches us not just how to live spiritually or how to be saved. It teaches us how to live in the whole of our lives, in the whole of the world that God made. So there's not an area that it doesn't speak to. The principles of the Bible, the definitions of the Scripture, should inform everything. If you don't, you know that's quite a different vision of biblical thinking. Training, discipleship right, those are kind of different. So I really applaud you for that, for pushing on this, the need for biblical worldview, a type of discipleship.
Luke Allen:Yeah, I agree with that. My mind when you're saying that Dad just goes again to Romans 12, 2. We say it all the time here on the podcast but it's if you don't do this, parents, the world's going to do it for you. The kids aren't going to sit in this neutral, happy, la-la land of just uninformity. You, the kids, aren't going to sit in this neutral, happy, la la land of just uninformity. They're going to be conformed, uh, into the world's worldview on important questions of what it means to be human and what is education and what is sexuality.
Luke Allen:Uh, again, romans 12 2 do not be conformed, you could say any longer, to the patterns of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. So the understanding there is that kids, if you don't, you know, if they're not purposely being transformed to the renewing of their mind, they're going to be conformed to this world. You know they don't start out as a blank slate, even like some of the early enlightenment thinkers so wrongly asserted, but they are. We're born into sin and we just continuously slide that direction unless we're being transformed by the renewing of our minds. So it's not this, it's not this neutral place that the kids are going to sit in.
Luke Allen:Um. Elizabeth, when you started this discussion, you were saying how, right now, for these generations gen z, gen alpha, probably millennials as well they are they are just bombarded by the age of information on social media, online, by false ideas, by the ideas that are trying to conform them into the patterns of this world. How specifically do you go about addressing that and how much of an issue is this? You know, if you could just kind of open people's eyes to this, yeah, how are you seeing this?
Elizabeth Urbanowicz:Yes. So I usually like to give an analogy in thinking about how can we train our kids, because a lot of times people think okay, I need to find all of the lies that culture is preaching and I need to explain how they're false. Now, there are much worse things that we could be doing than doing that. There is some value to that. However, I like to give the analogy of learning how to read. When each of us were learning how to read, which I mentioned before in this podcast, I didn't learn at school. Fortunately, my mom was a teacher, so she taught me at home.
Luke Allen:So I did eventually learn to read. I can read.
Elizabeth Urbanowicz:But when we were taught how to read our teachers or our parents you know whoever was teaching us how to read they could have given us a list of words and had us memorize all of those words.
Elizabeth Urbanowicz:You know, we could have memorized the shapes of the words, the sounds that they made, and then memorize that list of words, and then we could have learned to read that way. However, if we learned to read that way, we would have been forever dependent on someone else to teach us new words. We would never would have been able to decode a new word or look up a new word in the dictionary, because we just would have had the set of memorized words, where, instead, what our teachers or our parents did is they taught us the shapes and sounds associated with 26 individual letters and once we knew those shapes and those sounds, they taught us how to put those letters and those sounds associated together, and then we were able to read words and eventually, because we had that toolbox of 26 letters and the associated sounds, we can now decode any word that we come across. Are there still going to be ones that are difficult for us to read? Yeah, there's still going to be some difficulty, but we're equipped to read any word that we encounter, and it should be similar with our children that, rather than saying like, okay, these are the ideas right now, these are the ones I need to prepare them for, instead of doing that, we need to give them some thinking tools that they can take with them into any and every situation, and if we do that, they're going to be prepared for who knows what is coming down the pipeline.
Elizabeth Urbanowicz:You know, I just was talking a little bit before about the gender and sexuality revolution. You know, if we were recording this podcast 10 years ago, we would not be thinking about transgenderism at all. Like was that happening? Yes, but that wouldn't have been on the forefront of our minds. We would have instead been thinking about homosexual marriage because 2015 was the Obergefell decision, and fast, you know, like rewind back to 2005.
Elizabeth Urbanowicz:If we were recording this 20 years ago I mean that would have been amazing, because there was very few podcasts 20 years ago.
Elizabeth Urbanowicz:But if we were recording this 20 years ago, you know, there would have been different things that we would, you know, view as culturally important. So if we can give our kids some basic tools that can prepare them for any situation they're encountering. And now one tool that I think is so important that I'm always encouraging parents and church leaders and Christian educators to teach kids is the difference between claims that are objective, the truth of which is outside the control of someone's inner emotional thoughts, feelings, world, and then subjective claims that are completely dependent on the person's inner emotional world. For little kids, rather than saying you know objective and subjective, just call it truth and feelings. Because if we can equip our children to understand the difference between truths that are objective and feelings that are subjective, they're going to be prepared to think, to ask good questions and to analyze in a whole bunch of different situations, because now our world gets this all mixed up and just claims and assumes many times that our inner subjective, emotional world is the most reliable guide to reality.
Scott Allen:So if we can teach even little kids, Let me just pause you right there, because I just saw this video last week and it was kind of amazing. It was actually a video that was developed for children, elementary school children and it's being used in the state of Massachusetts, likely in many other states I'm almost certain here in Oregon as well, and it's teaching children about sex. It's teaching gender ideology, but when you watch it it's a cartoon, this little cartoon, and it shows this little boy or girl interacting with a doctor who's giving birth to a baby and the doctor's proclaiming that it's a boy or girl by looking at its body parts and they're saying now wait a second, we can't. You know, that may be a temporary placeholder, but what really defines who we are sexually is our feelings. And it went on and talked about how our feelings are what determine the reality of our sexuality, and it was to me it was like very powerful, because you can get lost sometimes in all the academic discussions about this.
Scott Allen:But this was just because it was made for kids. It was very clear. I thought this was just a perfect little distillation of a lie that, anyways, that our kids are being exposed to all the time. You know that this is our feelings. Our feelings are what determines what is real, including our own, you know, sex, gender, whatever it is, yeah, hey guys, thanks so much for joining us today.
Luke Allen:A couple of things I wanted to point your attention to real quick. Firstly, if you'd like to look into the amazing curriculum that Elizabeth and her team offer over at Foundation Worldview, then make sure to perk your ears up, because if you remember this discount code IDEAS10, again that is IDEAS10, you can save $10 on a family license of any Foundation Worldview curriculum over at foundationworldviewcom. Also, I wanted to tell you about our newest resource here at the Disciple Nations Alliance, which is the 10 Words to Heal, our Broken World Bible Study by Scott Allen. This is a 10-week Bible study and it is a perfect resource for any of us who want to deeply ground our understandings of each of these 10 culture-forming words in the Bible. Open your Bibles to see the true meanings of the words truth, human sex, marriage, freedom, authority, justice, faith, beauty and love.
Luke Allen:If you want to change a culture, it starts by redefining that culture's most important words. We've seen this tactic used by culture formers throughout history and we are seeing it in spades today and fitting to today's discussion. Much of the redefining of these 10 biblical words that this Bible study covers are being directed at our children right down to first grade today. Think about the commonly held definitions of words like love, truth and human that are being taught in many of our schools today. Think about the commonly held definitions of words like love, truth and human that are being taught in many of our schools today. Again, this is the 10 Words to Heal Our Broken World.
Luke Allen:10-week Bible Study. It's available on Amazon, so make sure to grab your copy today by tapping the link in the show notes. This is a great study for you to take on your own, at your own pace, with your high schoolers, your youth group, your young adults group, your church Bible study, your small group or any such group that you might be a part of. We really hope that this resource is helpful for you and, again, it's linked in the show notes below.
Elizabeth Urbanowicz:And that's why that's one of the foundational tools to have in our kids tool belt because actually several years ago a mom wrote, wrote into foundation worldview and she had taken her daughter, who I think at the time was maybe like six years old. She had taken her daughter through our biblical worldview curriculum and the first five lessons in that curriculum are all on the difference between truths and feelings. And so this was a mom of a public schooled student and she picked her daughter up from school one day when her daughter was in second grade and her daughter got in the car and was like, mommy, today was such a weird day. And her mom was like what do you mean? It was a weird day. She was like well, my teacher was absent and we had a substitute and he is a man, but he was wearing a dress and we were supposed to call him mrs so-and-so, you know.
Elizabeth Urbanowicz:And the mom said you know, she's internally freaking out. She has not had any conversations about gender or gender identity with you know her seven-year-old daughter. But instead of freaking out externally, she stayed calm and she said well, sweetie, what did you think about that? And her daughter surprised her and said mommy, it was so sad. And she said what do you mean? It was so sad and she's like well, the truth is that God designed him as a boy. But instead of believing the truth, he was believing his feelings instead. And the mom said she just kind of like put her head down on the steering wheel and cried because she was so relieved that because she had given her daughter just this simple paradigm that truths are different than feelings.
Elizabeth Urbanowicz:Her daughter was able to enter into this very unfortunate circumstance, you know for a seven-year-old to be in, but her daughter was able to think through it critically and biblically because she had one of those tools in her belt that she could implement in different situations. So that's why I say it's so important to think through okay, what are the basic skills that these children need that they can take into any and every circumstance?
Luke Allen:If you could just walk us through practically how those lessons go the truth versus feelings what does? That look like, just to give us a little anecdote.
Elizabeth Urbanowicz:Yeah, so in our curriculum, our biblical worldview curriculum, it's for children ages four through seven. It can go up to eight as well, but it's mainly for children ages four through seven. And so we have one big truth that we cover in every lesson and we practice saying it and we play games with it. And so the first lesson is truth is what is real, you know. So we memorize that truth is what is real, and then we play a game where, um, I'm the one that teaches those lessons. And so I'll say okay, I'm going to tell you some sentences. Some of them are going to be true sentences. They're going to tell you what's real, and if it's a true sentence, I want you to hold your arms up like it's an X and say true. Then I'm going to tell you some sentences that are not true. They're not real, they're going to be silly. And if you hear a sentence that is not true, I want you to cross your arms like an X and say not true. And so then we'll just play, you know, with a few rounds of that and with simple things like, if you're trying to do this on your own, just think of an object that you can talk through and say some sentences about it that are true and some that aren't. Like think of puppies. You can say puppies are baby dogs, that is true. And then a not true sentence that would be fun for little ones is like puppies run on the ceiling. Oh my goodness, that's so silly, that is not true. And just keep playing that game.
Elizabeth Urbanowicz:True, not true, true, not true. So that's what we do in the curriculum and it just creates these boxes in their minds. First, true and not true, because if you try to do too much at once, especially with little ones, they don't remember anything. So just start off really simple. That's the first lesson. We play a bunch of games with that.
Elizabeth Urbanowicz:Then, in the second lesson, the big truth that we cover is feelings are different than truths, and so we say that again. You know, feelings are different than truth. And then we play a game where they have to say if something is a truth, if it's not true or if it's a feeling, and so if it's a feeling, they hug themselves. And so what we do with that is we'll do something similar. You know, like puppies are baby dogs, that's true. Puppies run on the ceiling that is not true. Puppies are fun, that's a feeling. A lot of people feel like puppies are fun, but other people, when puppies are chewing on their sofa, do not feel like puppies are fun.
Elizabeth Urbanowicz:So we'll just play a bunch of games with that to just have these now mental categories of true, not true and feelings, and then in the next lesson we'll cover that feelings can trick us, and so we'll talk about how our feelings are big and our feelings are strong, and a lot of times our feelings feel like they are really true and sometimes our feelings do point us to truth. You know, like if a child, if his sister, takes the car that he is playing with while he's playing with it and grabs it, that's unjust, you know. So his feelings of anger are pointing him towards the truth. But then when those feelings of anger lead him to think I need to whack my sister upside the head, those feelings have then just tricked him. Those feelings have then just tricked him. So we just play games you know talking about does this person feel, do this person's feelings point them towards the truth or did they point them away from the truth, just so that they have these categories?
Elizabeth Urbanowicz:Then we'll cover in the next lesson that God is the source of truth, because that's what scripture reveals to us that all truth stems from God, that he is the source of truth. So basically, what we do in that lesson is we're just helping kids understand what source means. So we give them lots of examples and we're like what is the source of the eggs that we eat? Chickens. Chickens are the source of eggs. What is the source of most of the milk we drink, which nowadays there's so many different types of milk.
Elizabeth Urbanowicz:This isn't quite as relevant, but we'll say cows. Cows are the source of most of the milk that we drink. You know, like what is the source of wood? Trees, trees are the source of wood. Who is the source of truth? God is the source of truth. That truth comes from him. So we try to be really practical in what we're doing. We're giving bite-sized truths in, you know, like little doses that are easy enough for four, five, six and seven-year-olds to grasp. We're playing games, getting their bodies involved, because that's another part of even having a biblical worldview is understanding. How has God designed this child that he's placed in my care? Is my instruction of this child aligning with God's design or just aligning with some philosophy of someone that doesn't even understand God's design for children. So that's just a little snippet of what we do.
Luke Allen:Yeah, I love it. That, uh, it sounds so simple, but I I mean that if people would just do that simple game truth, feelings or a lie when they're scrolling through Tik TOK, or when they throw on, you know, uh, fox news or NBC tonight, you know, play that little game, it'd be, really helpful. That's how you think critically about these things, tim. I'm going to tag you, sorry, sorry. We've been kind of blocking you out of the conversation so far.
Tim Williams:Yeah, no, not at all, I've been enjoying everything I've been hearing.
Tim Williams:I'm a dad of four daughters, ages five to almost 16, and, can, you know, definitely have some big thoughts as you're talking. You know I was talking to a young person recently and you know they're beginning kind of dating relationships and they've got a lot of rules in their tool belt. I don't do this. And I just spent some time talking with them and was like, okay, why, why don't you do that? Because you know, when someone's not watching, what is the principle, what is the value, what is the foundation, the foundation why does that rule exist? I don't know.
Tim Williams:And so that was fun. You know, nobody ever walked me through anything like that, and so it's new to me to try and walk young people through that and to walk myself through that. But it's exciting because, you know, ultimately it's not the behavior, it's not the rule that follows us, but we do need these. We need these mental boxes that help us to really have a firm foundation so that we can apply those tools in in the situations that we find ourselves. That might be different than what I grew up in, what my parents grew up in.
Scott Allen:So, yeah, I love that. I want to probe a little bit, elizabeth, with you on an observation that I've made. You talked about how, if we're not intentional, especially when children are young, at helping them to think, feel, act, you know, on the basis of truth, biblical truth. You know we're going to be shaped by this culture that's around us right now and the culture, you know again, particularly in places like where I live here, is really post-Christian in a lot of ways. I mean what is out there in terms of just the general culture that's around us. And yet what I observe is a lot of Christians are, you know, they're not aware, maybe, of just how deeply that culture is shaping their children and they kind of almost, you know, I'll see things like here, you know you're bored, I'll just give you the iPad, you just kind of scroll or, you know, watch whatever is on TV or the movies, without any kind of thought about the way that the kids are being shaped. Their ideas are being shaped by what they're watching, what they're listening to, what they're seeing in the culture around us, just the power of culture. I'm always amazed that people are seemingly ignorant of just how powerful, like I think at the beginning, you know when I was reading your bio in fact, you talked about how your experience in schools and these were Christian schools, kids that had gone to church and had gone to Sunday school and were in Christian schools I mean, that's a lot of input, christian input, but they were still deeply shaped by the culture around them and there just seems to be such ignorance about that. Do you agree? And why is that? Why are we still not aware that this is happening? I'll let you answer.
Scott Allen:But I was talking to some Christian friends recently. We've got college-age kids and they were going to send the kids off to this school. I went to a very liberal arts college here in Oregon that at the time this was in the 80s, and I learned a heavy dose of Marxism back then. I mean, what they're teaching now, I'm sure, is just way off the rails and they. But they were just going to send their kids to these schools without a second thought about that, like, oh, that's just, you know, you go to that school and you get a degree and you know, and I'm like how is it that we're missing? You know this thing. You know, of course, the, the, our kids are going to be believing and shaped by all of these really false ideas, but it seems like there's an ignorance about that. What are your thoughts or observations on that?
Elizabeth Urbanowicz:Well, I probably don't understand it in totality, but I think one of the main errors is parents not taking the time to step back and to think through what is the goal of my parenting. Similarly, you know before we were talking about kids' ministry and how kids ministry, the model that we have, really isn't. It's not very effective and it's also I would argue that it's not even biblical. But a lot of times we just buy into this in the church because we're just like well, this is how it's been. You know, like this is what kids ministry was like when I was growing up. Every church I've been to has been like this and we never take time to step back and look at like okay, what does god have to say? You know, does this, does this align? Is this where our goal should be?
Elizabeth Urbanowicz:and I think it's similar in parenting that a lot of times parents just think, like, okay, it's this stage, this is what I should be focused on, where there are so many good things in our culture, like I mean, we just live in an amazing time with so many opportunities for children, but a lot of times we're just on this giant hamster wheel to nowhere and if we don't have the right goal we're not going to arrive at the right goal post. You know we're going to arrive off the mark. So if parents think, you know, yeah, I want my kids to be Christians, I want them, you know, to understand a biblical worldview, but the goal is to get into a top school, then that's the goal they're going to be shooting for. Or if it's to have their kids get top grades or to be the top athlete, now none of these things in and of themselves are wrong, but if that's the ultimate goal that we're shooting for, like, we are going to fail miserably in discipling our kids. Well, so I think part of it is actually just taking a step back and asking those around us, you know, asking ourselves if we're parenting, what is our goal?
Elizabeth Urbanowicz:I just recently had this conversation with a friend that I was with. I went to a homeschool convention with two friends because they were thinking of homeschooling their kids. And so I was like, hey, I know homeschool curriculum, I'd be happy to go with you, you know, ask the reps some questions. And as we were driving there, you know, one of the moms was just talking about how stressed she was because she wants her kids to eat like nutritiously well and this and that. And then she mentioned some like really big behavior issues she was having with her child and I was like, can I ask you a hard question? I was like what is your ultimate goal?
Elizabeth Urbanowicz:in parenting and she was like that's a good question. I, I'm actually not sure. And I was like well, the way that you've been talking over the past half hour makes it seem like your ultimate goal is that your children will grow up and have a healthy diet. Like having kids who have a healthy diet and understand how to eat nutritiously, is that a good thing? Yeah, but you know what? We're all dying and we are all going to die, and so, no matter what our diet is like, ultimately that can't be the ultimate thing. And so we just, you know, talk through like what should the ultimate goal in parenting be? Biblically? And I think that's one of the reasons why parents are so blind to these things and aren't aware that like, oh, my kid is going off to a secular university. You know, maybe I should be really intentional about getting them involved in a Christian ministry that isn't just going to have worship services but is actually going to teach them. How do I think biblically through my physics class, you know, how do I think biblically through my engineering major or my English lit major? Because we don't have the right goal. I also think so. I think that's like really foundational.
Elizabeth Urbanowicz:And then I also think that we also sometimes have the wrong fears. We fear the wrong thing, and so I think, like in that situation that you're talking about with, you know, parents sending their kids off to a secular university. Probably the fear that is driving them is a fear that their kid won't get a good education, that they won't get a good job, you know, and they'll be living in the basement with them, you know, and playing video games when they're 35. Now, that is a healthy fear, but that's not what ultimately, should drive us. You know, any fear that drives us should be the fear that you know we actually haven't discipled our kids well.
Elizabeth Urbanowicz:And similarly, with parents of younger kids that put them, you know, just on screens, I think they have the wrong fear. They have the fear that if they let their kid go out and play in the front yard, their child is going to be abducted. Well, you know what? This is not 1982 anymore. There are very few people driving around in vans with candy trying to get kids when you know, like the people that are dangerous are is online. But those same parents that are scared of letting their kids play out in the front yard are not scared of giving them a tablet, which is where the actual predators are hanging out. And so I think we need to have the right fears and just think. And so I think we need to have the right fears and just think OK, we should be fearing the Lord and seeking how has he called us to raise these children?
Scott Allen:That's so good, that's excellent. You know your focus on kind of ultimate goals or big goals that kind of get us moving in the right direction, get us focused on the right thing. We talk a lot about that in the DNA as it relates to the role of the local church in society, because we say very often the goal is, it's a good goal, it's often to get people saved and get them into church, and that's how we measure success right, how many churches, how many people have been saved. But is that really what our goal is? Is or is our goal to disciple nations? Is it to see, um, the nation around us, the community, be blessed and be flourishing and that we have a role to play in that as christians? Um, beyond, just, you know, being saved ourselves as individuals or coming into a church on a Sunday, if the goal isn't right right from the very beginning, you're going to be going off on a wrong trajectory. So I really love that and I think you're right. I think we are not thinking what is our goal as parents here?
Scott Allen:with the kids. What does success look like 20 years from now?
Luke Allen:Do we have a?
Scott Allen:clear picture of what that looks like in the life of my child. You know, not that again, you can't, you know there's no formula that's going to guarantee success, but you've got to have that picture, you know, out there in front of you, I think, the right picture exactly.
Luke Allen:Yeah, while we're wrapping up here, I just got a couple quick questions. Obviously there's plenty of parents who just maybe have been misguided or haven't really started this process yet and their kids are getting up there in the school years and whatnot, and the parents want a course correct and jump on this and start teaching their kids biblical worldview. They start locking in what that why is and getting their fears lined up properly. What other ways can parents of course correct? Say they have a 12-year-old, 15-year-old? That's question one. Question two is how can they pray for their kids during this time of you know, maybe they've already started to really grasp hold of the worldviews around them that are, that are secular, and then the parents really want to start leading them back towards the biblical worldview. How can the parents pray for them along that journey as well?
Elizabeth Urbanowicz:Yeah, good questions, I think for the first one, you know. And what can parents do? The first thing I would encourage, you know, especially with anybody who's wanting to course correct and your child is over the age of 12. Those teen years, like I said earlier, God has done many stranger things than work in the heart of a hard-hearted teenager. So please don't feel like it's hopeless.
Elizabeth Urbanowicz:I would think the first thing is, if the Lord has convicted you of this, that you haven't been actively discipling your child, you haven't been equipping them to think biblically, first thing I would recommend that you do is just repent before the Lord, you know. Just say I'm sorry, lord, you know I have not been raising my children in the way that you've called me, to Thank him for that conviction, that realization. And then I would recommend that you actually go to your child and you repent before them as well, that, rather than just trying to change things automatically, you let them know, hey, I have done some things in the way that I've been raising you, that God has convicted me. Just don't align with what he's revealed in his word and that has ultimately been to your detriment, and I am so sorry. Will you forgive me for this. Will you be patient with me as I try to correct? And now that's not.
Elizabeth Urbanowicz:You know, some kids will just be like whatever, I don't really care, you know, and they might respond like that. But even if they do, you'll know before the Lord that you've done what is right. And for many children that's going to speak volumes. Even if it doesn't in the moment, that's going to speak volumes to them. You know, even decades down the way, when they're like, wow, you know, my parent, you know in their 30s, 40s, 50s, you know, was willing to come before me and tell me that what they did was wrong and ask for my forgiveness. Like, wow, who does that? You know? So that's going to speak powerfully to that. And then I would just encourage you to implement small changes, just small changes. You know, don't be like, okay, we're changing everything. Like, you know, like, no more public school, you're going to be homeschooled from tomorrow.
Luke Allen:And we're only using Christian curriculum.
Elizabeth Urbanowicz:You know, I mean, if the Lord convicts you that you should. You know, homeschool, by all means homeschool. But you know, don't try to like flip a switch, you know, and pull your kids out of all sports and change everything. Just start with small things. I would encourage you to just teach your kids that definition. That truth is what is real. And then when you're watching a show or a family movie together, be like hey, what that person just said, was that true or is that not true, or is it just their personal feeling? So just start doing that. You know, as you're watching media together. You know, don't sit down and preach at them. You know, like hardly anybody learns when we're lectured at. So you know, just ask good questions as you're engaging in media together. Also, if we want our kids to have a biblical worldview, they need to actually know what the bible says, and so they need to be equipped to soundly read, interpret and apply scripture on their own. So you know, being trained.
Elizabeth Urbanowicz:You know to read scripture well does take a long time, but an easy way to start is just at family dinner. You know, to read scripture well does take a long time, but an easy way to start is just at family dinner, you know, or sometime when it's natural during the day. Just start reading a chapter of scripture together and asking the question what truths about God are revealed in this passage? What truths about humans are revealed in this passage? What truths about God's plan for the world are revealed in this passage? You know, just ask those three questions. And especially if you have a teen that's a little bit more standoffish to this, let them have some buy-in, you know. Let them choose the book of the Bible that you're going to study together. If they're not comfortable reading it together, say that's fine. You know, like we're all just going to make sure that we have read, you know, matthew chapter two by tomorrow at dinner and we're going to talk about it. So just little steps, you know. Start with that foundation of truth, start with equipping them to soundly read, interpret and apply scripture. So that would be my recommendation there.
Elizabeth Urbanowicz:And then for how you can be praying for them. I a lot of times, in situations where I'm feeling overwhelmed, I just ask the Lord, even just please show me how to pray in this situation that I find it so encouraging in Romans 8 when it talks about the Holy Spirit is interceding for us with groans that are too deep for words. Just to know that, like God, I don't know what to pray for in this situation, but your Holy Spirit does, and he is praying for me right now, and I'm so grateful for that. So I would just pray for wisdom, even in what to pray for your child. But a few things that I think are really helpful to pray for children. The first is that God would just graciously convict them that they would feel the weight of their sin, that they would taste and see that the Lord is good, that they'd be reconciled in their relationship to God. You know, just basic salvation, because really in order to have a biblical worldview you need to be indwelt by the Holy Spirit.
Elizabeth Urbanowicz:Now, indwelling of the Holy Spirit does not automatically equal you have a biblical worldview but it is a first step to that um, and I would be praying also that God you know, like these things, that I'm working towards, you know when, whether it's like discerning truths from feelings, or you know knowing how to soundly read, interpret and apply your word or anything else you're covering with them. Just pray that the Lord would bring about situations in their life where they would see the importance of that, because that's something that we cannot do as humans, but God can orchestrate that. God can and he will. You know, as we're praying for those things, that they'll be able to see the folly around them as they learn these things. So those would be my recommendations for parents, and I think they're good for grandparents to pray or aunts and uncles or even if you're just a member of a local church and you see the children that God has placed in that church.
Elizabeth Urbanowicz:These are great things to be praying for them as well.
Scott Allen:Super powerful, yeah, thanks. And very practical too. Um, I just really want to thank you, elizabeth, for for your very practical and biblical and heartfelt uh, sensitive, heartfelt wisdom that you're sharing here on this podcast. So, um, luke and tim, we probably should wrap up any final questions, or um, and I do want to encourage all of our listeners to go to foundationworldvieworg Dot com Dot com yeah, foundationworldviewcom. Check it out Really wonderful website, easy to navigate, clear, clearly laid out. So good job on that as well, and take advantage of these resources. Again, this is for parents, grandparents, great-grandparents you can all take advantage of these resources. Again, this is for parents, grandparents, great-grandparents you can all take advantage of these resources. So, thank you for blessing us with what you put out there, elizabeth. This is fantastic.
Elizabeth Urbanowicz:My pleasure If anybody listening is interested in implementing any of our curriculums if you use the coupon code IDEAS10,. That will give you $10 off of any family license.
Scott Allen:So we'd love to gift you with that. There you go Get a discount here today for listening to the podcast. Thank you, luke Tim. Any final thoughts or questions?
Tim Williams:Elizabeth, you talked about the conversation that you had where you were engaging with a woman, about what was the ultimate goal of parenting you know, wasn't healthy eating. In your own words, in a sentence or so you know what's the ultimate goal of parenting.
Elizabeth Urbanowicz:I think the ultimate goal of parenting is that our children would know Jesus, that they would love Jesus, that they would see the world through the lens that Jesus provides for us in scripture, and that they would spend their days seeking and serving him. Now, I know that that's a lofty goal and you know, as Scott said before, there is no guaranteed formula for raising kids who know love and trust Jesus. You know, if there were, I'd be a millionaire, but there is no such goal. However, if we shoot for that goal, we are going to be aiming in the right direction and we are going to be faithful to God's call on our lives. That faithfulness is what God has called us to, so that's what I'd encourage all the parents with Excellent Well.
Scott Allen:Elizabeth, thank you so much and we're grateful for you taking time to be with us and share your journey and your wisdom and your resources and your ministry with us today and our listeners. So thank you so much and again. Foundationworldviewcom is the website and encourage all of you to check it out. Thank you all for listening to another episode of Ideas have Consequences. This is the podcast of the Disciple Nations Alliance.
Luke Allen:Thank you for listening to this discussion with Elizabeth Urbanowicz, as always.
Luke Allen:To find more information about our guest and to find all of the resources that we mentioned during the discussion and more, please visit the episode page, which you'll see linked in the show notes.
Luke Allen:Again, if you use the discount code IDEAS10, you can get $10 off a family license of any Foundation Worldview curriculum over on foundationworldviewcom. If you've listened to the show for any amount of time, you'll know that Ideas have Consequences is the podcast of the Disciple Nations Alliance and, as a nonprofit ministry, we are blessed to be able to provide all of our biblical worldview courses and this podcast to you completely for free, thanks to our generous supporters. If this podcast has been a blessing to you, we would greatly appreciate it if you would follow this show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you're listening, and or help us share the show by sharing your favorite episode with a friend and, as you are able. We also hope that you would consider supporting this podcast with a donation to the Disciple Nations Alliance. To donate, visit disciplenationsorg and there on the homepage you'll see the button that says donate. Thanks again for joining us today. We'll catch you next week here on Ideas have Consequences.
