Ideas Have Consequences
Everything that we see around us is the product of ideas, of ideologies, of worldviews. That's where everything starts. Worldviews are not all the same, and the differences matter a lot. How do you judge a tree? By its fruits. How do you judge a worldview? By its physical, tangible, observable fruit. The things it produces. Ideas that are noble and true produce beauty, abundance, and human flourishing. Poisonous ideas produce ugliness. They destroy and dehumanize. It really is that simple. Welcome to Ideas Have Consequences, the podcast of Disciple Nations Alliance, where we prepare followers of Christ to better understand the true ideas that lead to human flourishing while fighting against poisonous ideas that destroy nations. Join us, and prepare your minds for action!
Ideas Have Consequences
Underlying Worldviews: DEI & Climate Alarmism | Darrell Harrison
Cultural and political debates around DEI (Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion) and climate change dominate headlines—but what deeper ideas are fueling these movements? Why did these ideas gain such traction, and how should Christians respond? Instead of impulsively reacting to the latest controversies, we explore how to replace false ideas with biblical truth, offering a transformative alternative for meaningful change. Darrell Harrison is the lead host of the well-known Just Thinking podcast and a fellow at the Black Theology and Leadership Institute at Princeton Theological Seminary. He helps us move beyond surface-level arguments and uncover the worldviews shaping these narratives.
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This is why ideologies like DEI, critical race theory, cultural Marxism, transgenderism are making such inroads in the culture. Because the church is I hate to say this. I have to be honest with you guys. The church is quite cowardly in a lot of ways today. I think it fears being persecuted, when Christ himself said that the church would be persecuted for standing for the truth. So there's an irony there that we should fear persecution when Christ said that that's what we should expect.
Luke Allen:Hi friends, welcome to Ideas have Consequences. The podcast of the Disciple Nations Alliance. Here on this show we examine how our mission as Christians is to not only spread the gospel around the world, to all the nations, but our mission also includes to be the hands and feet of God, to transform the nations to increasingly reflect the truth, goodness and beauty of God's kingdom. Tragically, the church has largely neglected this second part of her mission and today most Christians have little influence on their surrounding cultures. Join us on this podcast as we rediscover what it means for each of us to disciple the nations and to create Christ-honoring cultures that reflect the character of the living God.
Scott Allen:Well, welcome again everyone to another episode of Ideas have Consequences. This is the podcast of the Disciple Nations Alliance. I'm Scott Allen, I'm the president of the DNA and we're thrilled today to have with us, back again with us after quite a gap, a person that I have tremendous respect for Pastor Daryl Harrison.
Darrell Harrison:Pastor Harrison thank you so much for joining us on the podcast again, scott Dwight, the pleasure is all mine. I am overjoyed to be with you, gentlemen, you brothers, once again, scott, after what you said has been a pretty significant gap since we last spoke, so the honor is mine to be with you both.
Scott Allen:Oh well, thank you. Let me introduce you a little bit, darrell. May I call you Darrell, pastor, darrell Sure absolutely no, I'm just Darrell.
Darrell Harrison:Even when I'm at church and in the midst of my official pastoral duties, I prefer people to just call me Darrell.
Scott Allen:Okay, well, that's what we'll do then. Yeah, just a little introduction. Daryl, as of about a year ago, is on the pastoral team at a church that I have tremendous respect for Redeemer Bible Church in Gilbert, arizona, working alongside our good friend Pastor John Benzinger, so that's exciting to see that move, daryl. Before joining the staff there, daryl served at Grace to you, which is the well-known and respected ministry of John MacArthur. He was the director of digital platforms there.
Scott Allen:But perhaps Daryl is most well-known by me and most people as the co-host of the Just Thinking podcast, along with his friend, virgil Walker. It's one of the leading Christian podcasts in the world. And, daryl, let me just say again that your podcast for me as I was researching my book my 2020 book why Social Justice Is Not Biblical Justice was a breath of fresh air, just an incredible encouragement, source of joy, laughter, insight, huge help to me. So I just want to pause right now in this introduction and thank you for your podcast, for your ministry with Virgil and just the incredible courage and leadership I would say that you provided to those of us in the evangelical church as we kind of were getting our heads around this woke worldview that we've had to deal with, so thank you for that.
Darrell Harrison:Thank you very much, brother. That means a lot to me coming from you. Well it's been.
Scott Allen:I just remember when John Bottomore, one of our team members, he pointed out your podcast to me, I guess many years ago, and I just I could not get enough of it and I loved the humor too. So I always wish I had a Hammond Oregon. You know, when you join us you know, I just love that.
Scott Allen:I just thought that was so wonderful. I'm a native of Oregon, lived all my life on the West Coast, but I've traveled broadly around the world and have spent many months in the South. When I was a college student, I spent time in your native Atlanta and many other cities. It was a real eye-opening experience for me. I went to many all-black churches for the first time. Oregon is a very white place and, man, that was just a joy, eye-opening joy, and so you brought back great memories for me of those days. Anyways, being in church.
Darrell Harrison:Yeah, yes, so you know you talk about the Hammond B3, oregon, Scott. And for your listeners who may not be familiar with the Just Thinking podcast, there's a significant sort of element to why Virgil and I, sort of intermittently, will sort of add that sound effect as appropriate in our episodes, because it's actually a. It harkens us back to our experience growing up in the black church, in the quote unquote black church. So with Virginal I share that experience from an ecclesiastical background, so the organ is very prominent in the worship ambience of urban inner city black churches.
Darrell Harrison:Ambiance of urban inner city black churches. So, uh, uh, so. So there's a, there's a, though it may, it comes across somewhat humorous uh, to to folks who listen to us, uh, because there is some humor. Uh, that's the case that occasionally accompanies that sound effect when you hear it in our episodes. But there's a very uh significant reason why we employ the Hammond B3. It's sort of a subtle homage to my and Virgil's upbringing in some of those black churches that you just alluded to, when you would visit Atlanta. So it's sort of an homage to our experience when we were growing up and not as theologically mature as we are right now, by God's grace. But yeah, just to give you a little backstory on that.
Scott Allen:Oh, I appreciate that you know. Another thing insights that I gained as I was researching for the book was just the legacy of the black church in America and how deep and rich and powerful that legacy is. Now I know it's split and divided like evangelical churches today, but boy, I just gained such an incredible appreciation for the church coming out of slavery and what it meant for the black community in the United States so powerful, so.
Darrell Harrison:I see you guys. Yeah, that's a.
Scott Allen:You're continuing a really unique I mean unique in the world and very powerful legacy there.
Darrell Harrison:Well, thank you very much, Tyler. It's sort of a bittersweet reality when you look at the history of the black church in America. And let me just say this as a caveat to your listeners when I mentioned the term black church, go ahead and assume air quotes with that, okay. So you know, I use the term for the sake of conversation. It's not that I subscribe to and sort of an anthropological identifier such as black church, white church, asian church, asian church. You know folks who listen to Virgil and me, they ought to know that by now that we don't subscribe to these sort of identifiers, those kind of categories.
Darrell Harrison:So I used the term black church in context. So the history of the black church in America I mean we're talking was born out of slavery, pre-slavery, post-slavery discrimination, where leaders like Richard Allen, who founded the AME denomination, saw it necessary to build houses of worship for former slaves, understanding that history from the standpoint of suffrage. A doctrine of slavery, a doctrine of still waiting for a Moses-type figure to lead them to the promised land. And you know, that's another episode, that's a whole other episode right there.
Scott Allen:I would really enjoy that. And you know, I know where your heart is on issues of. You know these identifiers, cultural identifiers. You know these identifiers, cultural identifiers, but I really am speaking of culture, and kind of the richest sense of the word, in that, over that many decades and centuries, you know there's richness to this culture that's unique in the world and you know, going back to the Hammond Organ and there's my own brief experience, there's just a powerful richness to it and it's something that I think is really precious. So, anyways, well, let me continue, if I might, with just again a few more notes on the introduction, but I'd love for you to finish whatever I don't get here, which I'm sure will be a lot, a lot more to you. Daryl Daryl's a fellow of the Black Theology and Leadership Institute at Princeton Theological Seminary. Daryl has a passion for expository teaching, for cultural apologetics, which we're going to be talking about today, and biblical counseling, which I didn't know until today. In his spare time, daryl enjoys college sports. Great time for college sports, daryl.
Darrell Harrison:Yeah.
Scott Allen:I already posted my Final.
Darrell Harrison:Four on X. Yesterday I think I surprised a lot of people with my selections.
Scott Allen:Who's going to win it all?
Darrell Harrison:I've got Michigan State winning the whole thing. I've got three Big Ten teams in my Final Four. That has nothing to do with the fact that my wife is from Michigan, by the way. It's like the old saying you know, defense wins championships. And these Big Ten schools they have big guys who play defense. They play really tough. So I don't think these are going to be high-scoring games. I just think in the end defense is going to win. You just can't count Michigan State out. So I've got them winning the whole thing.
Scott Allen:Okay, well, thank you guys. I get to choose that now on my DNA.
Darrell Harrison:March Madness bracket.
Scott Allen:So, anyways, that's great. Well, yeah, so sports. Classical music is another area of enjoyment. I share that with you, and reading of the Puritans that's also something that is wonderful and rich. He and his wife Melissa have three adult children Colin, naomi and Yasmin, and each of those, I guess, are they still in Atlanta, is that right?
Darrell Harrison:Yeah, so all of our family is in Georgia. When we left Atlanta to go to LA for a grace to you and you, and then from LA to here Arizona, we have no family out west. All of our family is back east.
Scott Allen:Gotcha. Okay, well, you must be traveling a bit then, you know, in addition to what you're traveling with work-wise, with family. So well, daryl, I would love to, or we would love to, talk to you today about just what we're seeing right now in the culture around it. You know, the way I am seeing it is kind of this rather sudden collapse, and for me a bit unexpected collapse of the woke revolution, the social justice, the cultural, marxist, ideological social justice revolution that it seemed to me kind of peaked perhaps in 2020, 2021, 19, 2020, 21,. Around that time I always kind of put George Floyd there, you know, at the peak of that Black Lives Matter, when it was at its peak. But boy, how things have changed in just such a short time. You know, I think you could look at any number of indicators.
Scott Allen:Well, I just mentioned Black Lives Matter. You know the three founders of that are no longer in the news and you know the whole organization, I guess, has been kind of exposed as a fraud. You know there was just so much graft, you know, involved. They just skimmed a lot of them. These founders skimmed so much money off of that and bought these giant houses and you know, wow, that's just one.
Scott Allen:You think about people like some of the key spokespeople of the movement, like Ibram X Kendi or Ta-Nehisi Coates they're also, you know, ta-nehisi Coates. They're also, you know, no longer looked upon favorably by. You know the vast swaths of people you've got Of late. You know the big talk is all about canceling and ending policies of DEI diversity, equity and inclusion. Of course, this is kind of on the policy level, a lot of this with the new Trump administration. Anyway, it's just so much change and I'd love to hear your thoughts as somebody who you know you saw this movement, understood it before most people in the Church did. You know you were a prophetic voice on this. I guess just some of the—I'd love your thoughts on what's happening right now. You know why is this collapse happening? Did it take you by surprise? Maybe we'll just start with that.
Darrell Harrison:Yeah, great questions there, scott, and I don't think any astute biblical Christian is taken by surprise by any of this. You mentioned the word indicators. I made a note that that word stood out to me. What were some of the indicators? And I think a primary indicator and no offense to any of your listeners who may disagree with me on this, they're obviously free to do so but I think the primary indicator was the two administrations, in with Barack Obama's president, and then we have Joe Biden, the Joe Biden administration that we just came out of. I think those two gentlemen and their worldview together created the perfect recipe for what we're seeing happen right now. And I think again, for any biblically astute Christian, this is no surprise whatsoever, because we understand and I love the fact that Ideas have Consequences is a worldview podcast, because I think I would describe myself as a believer in Christ who understands that worldviews matter. Ideas have consequences, which is why you guys named your podcast that because they do have consequences, and I think it behooves every truly regenerate believer to look at the world through the lens of what scripture says. You look at what's going on with Black Lives Matter, george Floyd. You know, virgil and I I'm not patting ourselves on the back here. But the fact is that when Black Lives Matter sort of percolated onto the social scene, even within the church, virgil and I were probably some of the most forensic voices out there trying to educate Christians on who these people really were.
Darrell Harrison:I've been following Barack Obama since 2004. Now he didn't run for president until 2008. But I remember watching him give the keynote address at the Democrat National Convention in 2004. And he turned. That arena was so animated, so emotional You'd have sworn he was the second coming of Martin Luther King Jr. And I said to myself right then that night I said Barack Obama began running for president. That night is, as we look at, the more tangible evidence of where the culture is right now. With respect to BLM, the whole George Floyd thing now we have critical race theory. Now we've sort of here's critical race theories, ugly stepchild DEI that we're dealing with now. You can't divorce those worldview fruits from the worldview that produced those fruits. So I would say, barack Obama and Joe Biden, their worldview, their ideology, their philosophy of the world had immense impact in affording the culture to feel free enough to express itself in ways that we're seeing right now.
Darrell Harrison:Under Barack Obama, the LGBTQ agenda was vivified was vivified. Barack Obama made that clear when he was running for office that he was fully supportive of having what they would call same-sex marriage legalized. You fast forward to Joe Biden and I've said from day one of the Biden administration, when you look at a lot of his especially domestic policies and some of his cabinet appointees people who really was close to his inner circle Joe Biden ran his entire administration on the tenets of critical race theory and DEI. So it percolates down from the top is my overarching point here. So none of what we're seeing right now are big bang events. Okay, they just didn't happen ex nihilo. Dei just didn't pop out from nowhere. Transgenderism didn't just pop out from nowhere. I think we have a sociopolitical culture in America right now and in the world at large, but in America, where we live, we have a sociocultural environment and atmosphere right now that has been facilitated by the political leaders that we and I say we many Christians have elected to office. So I think those two go together.
Scott Allen:Yeah Well, political and just generally cultural, I think a lot of academic. You know. It seems to me in hindsight here a little bit that this really was an elite or a top-down movement that didn't have, as it turns out, a lot of kind of bottom-up or, you know, normie or whatever you want to call it grassroots support. And I kind of felt that. You saw that even in the evangelical church, where evangelicals that picked up the woke worldview often were pastors, leaders, but the people in the pews didn't buy it. You know a lot of them. There was a lot of switching of churches. So it seems to me that this part of what we're seeing is just how fragile it is. If you have, you know, a kind of a social revolution that's pushed and, by the way, the tactics that were used to push it were really aggressive. They were, you know, they were kind of cancel culture, censorship, you know all sorts of really aggressive, and I think the tactics turned people off. What are your thoughts about all that, daryl?
Darrell Harrison:Yeah, again, I think your point, scott, about it being a top down versus a bottom up movement is spot on. Matter of fact, most revolutions happen that way. You have the top down elitists who have the positions of power, they have the money, they have the mechanisms, the machine. The machinery is in place for them to sort of execute on these revolutions. And again, revolutions occur because there's someone, or maybe several someones, who want to impart their worldview on the rest of us.
Darrell Harrison:This is why I say, revolutionaries are eschatological, revolutionaries are eschatological. When we think of eschaton and eschatology, we normally have sort of a propensity to see eschatology in the context of the end of something. But what we have to do as believers we have to understand that eschatology is not just the end of something, but the end of something and then the beginning of something else. So this is what revolutions try to accomplish. They're eschatological and they're trying to replace one type of world with another type of world.
Darrell Harrison:So usually the bottom ups, they're the pawns, they're the people who have no clue. Pawns, they're the people who have no clue. They have no. They're so far separated from the top-down elitists, that. But as Marx would say, useful idiots, they're the useful idiots of the elites, while the elites keep their hands clean. The top-down people on the college campuses with the megaphones and they're wearing the keffiyehs, and they're the ones getting their hands clean. The top-down people on the college campuses with the megaphones and they're wearing the keffiyehs, and they're the ones getting their hands dirty, they're the ones getting arrested.
Luke Allen:So here you have.
Darrell Harrison:You know, this is people like the World Economic Forum, the World Health Organization, people like George Soros, the United Nations and people like that. So those are the top-down folks. They've got the money, they've got the money, they've got the structure, they've got the organization. And then the bottom-up folks who are convinced that the top-down folks care about them. That's where the naivety is Chinese people during his cultural revolution in the 60s and 70s to end up killing dozens of millions of people in China because he was able to convince these young people that they were just ideological world changers. It's every generation we have this new crop of young, college educated idealists who think their job is to change the world. And this is what revolutions are about. Revolutions are about changing the world. Wokeness is a revolution. Wokeness is just another term that we've given to a historical, repetitive presentation of human nature. Presentation of human nature, our human nature.
Darrell Harrison:As sinners, we rebel we organize revolutions because that's the way we've convinced ourselves that well, I can get what my sin nature wants. I can get what I want by revolution. So this is all a top down orchestrated exercise that we're seeing and these things are cyclical. They're cyclical because, like I say, all the time we repeat history because human nature doesn't change. Human nature does not change. That's why we repeat history. So now we have another generation of revolutionaries who think well, I'm going to, I'm going to, you know, I'm going to buy into this communism and cultural Marxism, because my grandparents, they just didn't do it right, you know, and there's just sort of a naivete here. And as Christians we need to be smarter than that.
Darrell Harrison:You know, I think about a text Scott, like Colossians 2.8, if I can get there real quick. The apostle Paul says in Colossians 2.8, he says see to it that no one thinks you captive through philosophy and empty deception according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ. This is a one verse apologetic as to why Christians need to pay attention to what's going on around them, because the church has been used across history to push social justice, to push DEI and even to push wokeness coming out of the whole George Floyd situation. Again, your point is well thought out, scott, as it relates to top-down versus bottom-up.
Luke Allen:Hi friends, I wanted to take a quick minute to tell you about our newest Bible study here at the Disciple Nations Alliance, titled the Ten Words to Heal Our Broken World Bible Study by Scott Allen Guys. This 10-week Bible study is a perfect resource for any of us who want to deeply ground our understandings of each of these 10 culture-forming words in the Bible. Open your Bibles to see the true meanings of the words truth, human, sex, marriage, freedom, authority, justice, faith, beauty and love. If you're wondering why defining words is so important, just keep listening to today's episode and think about how the words that God originally defined for us in his word, for example, words like truth, sex, human and justice, have been so drastically redefined by those who are behind some of the major false ideologies that are in opposition to biblical Christianity today.
Luke Allen:If Christians don't know how to define these words according to God's word, then who's going to defend them against being redefined? So again, the Bible study is the 10 words to heal our broken world Bible study. It's a 10 week course and it's now available on Amazon, so you can grab your copy today by just tapping the link in the show notes. This is a great study for you if you want to take it on your own, at your own pace, with your church Bible study, with your small group or with any such group that you're a part of. We really hope this is a helpful resource for you and we also hope that you enjoy the rest of the episode.
Dwight Vogt:Okay, yeah, you guys are talking about cyclical revolutions In this case. Yeah, we've seen the DEI. You referred to it as woke the worldview of CRT. What's caused the switch in the revolution? We've just come up against reality. Did the evangelical, biblical worldview finally pervade in US society? It's finally getting the upper hand. What happened? What do you credit that to?
Darrell Harrison:Well, here's what I'm seeing, Dwight. Okay, let me just speak plainly and bluntly. Here's what I'm seeing. I'm seeing the church not be the students of the Bible that we're supposed to be. I've always argued that there's a difference between reading your Bible and studying your Bible, and what I'm seeing here is, especially as it relates to the degree that the church is being captured by a lot of what we're seeing, and you see this especially in mainline denominations, mainline denominations where their doctrinal positions are sort of malleable. All right, they're mutable, they're flexible, they're changeable, you know. So you'll see these in mainline denominations where right above the pulpit, they have the pride flag hanging. They'll have the Black Lives Matters flag hanging.
Darrell Harrison:They're capitulating on some of the clear teachings of scripture against homosexuality, for example, sexual immorality 1 Thessalonians 4.3. They're capitulating to the culture, really out of fear, really out of fear. There's a fear that they will not be liked, there's a fear that they won't be accepted by the culture. There's a fear that they won't be seen as loving, as kind, as gracious. So what I'm seeing here, dwight, is not a church that is standing on truth and I hate the term culture war, so I'm not going to use that term but they're not standing on truth against the evil error that is coming against the church from the world. So, and I think this is why ideologies like DEI, critical race theory, cultural Marxism, transgenderism are making such inroads in the culture, because the church is I hate to say this.
Darrell Harrison:I have to be honest with you guys the church is quite cowardly in a lot of ways. Today day, I think it fears being persecuted. That's an irony. The church fears being persecuted when Christ himself said that the church would be persecuted for standing for the truth. So there's an irony there that we should fear persecution when Christ said that. That's what we should expect when we come against an ungodly world with the truth of scripture.
Darrell Harrison:So I again, I think there's a lot of work to do within the church and that work has got to start within the pulpit. We need courageous men who are willing to stand for the truth in the pulpit, regardless of what it's gonna cost us to do that, and it will cost us something. So again, I wish I had more positive news on that, dwight, but from what I'm seeing and from you guys, you all know from listening to Virgil and me on our Just Thinking podcast, that we have tackled all of these issues, but I'm still seeing people out here demanding reparations. They're demanding discriminatory treatment under the guise of equality and justice, in the form of DEI policies. We're seeing our children be ravaged, sexually abused by men who are pretending to be women by virtue of the fact that they just put on a dress and some lipstick. This is a spiritual battle that we're in, gentlemen, and I just don't think the church really realizes that.
Scott Allen:Yeah, I just want to comment a little bit on what you're saying there, daryl. My concern, you know, one of the things that we teach at Disciple Nations Alliance coming from Daryl, one of our co-founders, daryl Miller is this concept of worldview at the foundation, these kind of core, usually religious beliefs, deep beliefs then leading to or contributing to principles, kind of foundational principles, those contribute you can think of arrows, contributing to policies and practices and those, of course, having consequences. And it seems to me that my concern is that the Church and the culture generally is now kind of awakened or aware of the dangers. At a level of policy, like DEI, you know, we lose this whole concept of merit-based and, wow, so many things fall apart if you don't have some of the best and brightest flying airplanes, running universities or whatever it is. We're all kind of realizing just how damaging that is or all sorts of things, I think. Another thing that people are responding to it's been interesting for me to kind of watch the broader culture Like where did you start getting pushback? One of the first places I saw it was school mothers, you know, rejecting this idea that you can categorize my son or my daughter in public school based on skin color, and put them into a category of good or evil Like that just—that was really—you know non-Christians pushed back against that and said how dare you, you know, make those kind of almost well racist judgments against my son or my daughter? You know, and not just whites, but blacks too. You know we're saying the same thing. You know, how dare you paint my son or my daughter, you know, and not just whites, but blacks too. You know we're saying the same thing. You know, how dare you paint my son as a victim, you know, without any agency or whatever it is. So you saw that, that whole movement in school.
Scott Allen:Then there was the movement against the rabid sexuality of the children, especially at the transgender with transgenderism. You know the curriculum in public schools. There was a big push against that. And then you know there was a major push too, continuing against transgenderism in sports, transgenderism in terms of surgery, especially for the young, and just kind of the eye-opening shock that we all felt about how big that industry was and who was behind it. Just kind of revulsion against that.
Scott Allen:And then now everyone's talking DEI. I remember at the beginning we didn't even know what to call this. The best name was cultural Marxism, but you couldn't say that because you got all sorts of pushback and flack against people that were. You know, you're just calling me names or whatever it is, even though it was an accurate name. Then it was kind of critical race theory and now it's DEI, you know.
Scott Allen:But all that to say, I feel like it's been at the level of policy but not yet pushing down to the deep principle and paradigm, and I think that's what we have to see clearly is that you know we're dealing with an atheistic ideology. There is no God, all that there is is power, you know. And these are dangerous and deadly ideas and you know, not just now, they've been that way through the 20th century wherever they've been put into practice. But we can't just think, oh hey, we'll change a policy, you know, change a law. You know we've got to combat this as Christians at the level of worldview, kind of first principles level. You know what is this and how is it different from what the Bible teaches on basic things?
Scott Allen:And you know I'm speaking to somebody who knows this so well. I get that, Daryl, but that's my concern.
Darrell Harrison:Well, what you're talking about is apologetics. Is what you're talking about? Bottom line is that, as Christians, we must be apologists. See, you bring up a great point. We just can't address these issues on the level of policy. So, for instance, as Christian apologists, we can't just come out and say, well, you know, transgenderism is wrong, without being able to articulate and intelligently establish a biblical apologetic for why transgenderism is wrong. We need to be able to point people to Genesis 127, where the creator, yes, the God who created us all in his image, created us male and female. Now, there's no, uh, there's no comma after that verse. That's period. You're created male and female. There's no, there's no ellipses after that verse.
Darrell Harrison:Dot, dot dot that's right, that's, this is, it's finished, it's final, it's definitive. You, you are either male or you are female. This is why Virgil and I, on our podcast, are just thinking we spend so much time defining terms. You would probably, I would guess if I had to put a number on it. You could click play on any of our episodes, and we probably spend the first third of every episode defining terms.
Darrell Harrison:We did an episode last year, 2024 on gender identity, where we gave the history of the term gender as the culture uses it and we introduced people to one of the most demented individuals ever to walk the face of this earth, dr John Money, who opened the first transgender clinic at Johns Hopkins University. And this man was a Frankenstein, he absolutely was, he actually he. Matter of fact, john money is known as the father of gender, he's known as the inventor of gender, uh. So we have to as apologists. As apologists, we need to be able to say and make the distinction between what is biological sex against the culture's uh uh terminology of biological gender. And when you understand the history, the origins, the genesis of this idea of quote-unquote gender, you'll understand that it has nothing to do with biological sex but has everything to do with absolutely destroying God's creative order. That's what this whole idea, this whole philosophy of gender is about destroying God's creative order, in which there is definitively only two sexes there is male and female. There is no such thing as transgender. But people like John Money. But people like John Money, people like I'm thinking of the woman who wrote a book. The book was titled Gender Trouble. I can't think of her name right now.
Darrell Harrison:But people like that who are? You mentioned the word atheistic. That's exactly right, scott. These are unbelievers, these are haters of God who want to destroy I mean absolutely destroy God's created order for the family, for sex, for marriage, for how our children ought to be raised. And then again, eschatological. They want to replace it with this demonic evil licentiousness, this world of licentiousness where they can do what they want, be who they want.
Darrell Harrison:So that we're seeing everything now, from adult human beings dressing up as furries, as animals they're. They're carrying out some of the most diabolical sexual imaginations that you can think of, all under the guise of gender and when people understand that, as the gender theorists themselves declare, that gender is all about how you feel. So if you feel like a tree, you're a tree and I have to acknowledge your tree pronouns, I guess, well, I'm an oak or I'm a pine tree or I'm a, whatever the case may be, and this is why their pronouns run the gamut. So we have to be apologists as it relates to, you know, these worldviews. See, when I say worldview, what I mean, and this is what I want to make clear to your listeners, scott. This is how people think.
Scott Allen:Yeah, this is how they see the world.
Darrell Harrison:This is how they see the world.
Darrell Harrison:This is how they see the world, and that includes how they see you. So when you look at all these worldviews and how they're coming against the church, the church is the enemy of these worldviews and how they're coming against the church, the church is the enemy of these worldviews. The church is the only enemy of these worldviews. These worldviews do not go after Islam, they don't go after Hinduism, they don't go after Buddhism. They go after Christianity, the Bible and the God of the Bible. Because the Bible dares to say, because the Bible dares to say no, you are not that, you are not a furry panda. You are a male adult, you are a female adult, you are created in God's image and that's the end of that. But because we dare to respond to the world with that truth, we are their mortal enemy, and there is no other animosity out there right now that you could point to that even gets close to the level of the animosity that the world has for the church.
Scott Allen:Yeah, yeah, I mean, except for perhaps the Jewish community, and I think that it's for the same reason.
Darrell Harrison:you know, it's God the God of the Bible ultimately that people are rebelling against in this fallen world.
Scott Allen:You know it goes back to the Garden of Eden and you can be like God yourself. That old temptation hasn't gone away.
Dwight Vogt:Yeah, away, I just have a couple of thoughts on what you just said, darrell. First of all, I want to thank you for that insight on eschatology. I've never thought of it that way, but it makes sense to me that it's not just the end, it's the beginning of some movement. I'm going to look at my Bible differently from when I look at eschatology here. And the other one is using the word apologetics. I saw an article recently and you're using it broadly. I grew up in the 60s and apologetics was about the inerrancy of the Bible and, you know, is creation true? And you're using it broadly in the sense of apologizing in a good way for God's given order, which is a worldview comment.
Dwight Vogt:And I think that's also a really good thing that's happening as we think about apologetics in our church. We're broadening it to go what is God's given? What is God given order? What is his design at the paradigm level, as you put it, scott? So that's what I heard you say and I appreciate that.
Scott Allen:Darrell, you criticized the church of not being engaged and allowing these worldviews to get the upper hand in the culture. And you know, as John Stonestreet often says, you know, ideas have consequences and bad ideas have victims. I mean, it's true, these are deeply, deeply damaging ideas. They destroy people, they destroy—you can't have a functioning culture if these core presuppositions of this woke, cultural, marxist worldview take hold in a culture. You just can't, because everything becomes power. You know, and it's just getting the upper hand and putting forth my power in any way that I can, shutting you down, censoring you, persecuting you, throwing you in prison, whatever you know we'll do. Whatever you know, it's just power. You can't have a functioning society when people are, you know, operating in that way, without any love, without any grace or forgiveness or all of these things that come from the Bible. But I do want to—it seems to me that—I just heard a sermon, recently in fact, on this, where the pastor, great guy, but he was saying the mission of the Church, when it boils down to it, is to just preach the good news of salvation, and I thought well, certainly it's not less than that. You know, the gospel is central to the biblical worldview.
Scott Allen:But I found myself being a bit frustrated with that too, because I thought to use Nancy Peercy's you know the title of her great book. We have total truth. You know, we have to be out there representing not just truth about sin and salvation but truth about what does it mean to be a human being, about marriage, sexualities. We have to be representing all of that. That's all included in mission.
Scott Allen:And I know that some evangelicals get nervous when you broaden it in that way because they have a fear and I think there's right reason to fear that if you get it too broad, if it becomes too big, then we're going to lose this emphasis on evangelism and gospel presentation. Do you agree with me on my concern there? Because I do think that's part of the reason that the Church hasn't been as engaged on some of these things. And I think when you don't engage in that way, if you think that way, it's very easy to kind of go along with whatever the culture is putting forward on those issues, right, because you assume that it's not important or the Bible doesn't speak to it or whatever it is.
Darrell Harrison:Yeah, I completely agree with you, scott. I couldn't say it any better than you articulated it there. And I think having that sort of paradigm of how the church is supposed to be involved in worldview issues, to the extent that a Christian might think the church should be involved, whatever extent that might be, I think a lot of that mindset is attributable to just tradition, ecclesiastical tradition. It could be attributable to ecclesiastical denominationalism and what that denomination has taught or subscribed to over the generations. But you know again, you know, you look at you, look at what God, even God, says in his word. God says come, let us reason together. Look at what God, even God, says in his word. God says come, let us reason together. You see, christianity and being a Christian, being a follower of Jesus Christ, does not detach you from the mind. It does not detach you from thinking. So, yes, still, salvation is by faith alone. You know, recall now that Jesus in John 17, in his high priestly prayer, he explicitly asked his heavenly father not to take us out of the world. He says I'm not asking you to take them out of the world, I'm asking you to protect them from the evil one, keep them from the evil one. Well, and I don't mean to sound facetious here, but why do you think Jesus asked God, the father, to not take us out of the world, to leave us here? Why do you think one of these verses I'm about to cite that we use as a bumper sticker phrase why do you think Jesus left us here to be salt and light, to be a city on a hill? You can't do that by just sitting in your pew and counting the increase in the membership role. You have to be a conscious thinking believer. If you're being salt and light, it's like Jesus himself said if you take away the salt, it's not salty anymore. So you can't be a static, uninvolved Christian in this world, because I don't think that's why Jesus left us here. He didn't leave us here to collect dust, okay.
Darrell Harrison:Now in saying that, I think another, another disheartening reality of the church and believers having sort of a narrow, traditional view of how we are to be involved in the world is that we think that changing policy is the answer. So you know, you look at what we call the Great Commission. You know Jesus sent us out to make disciples. Ultimately, the goal isn't to change policy. Now, in saying that, I am 100% behind, and I'll just go ahead and admit that right now, where America is right now, as we record this episode, on March 17, 2025, is light years from where we were three months ago. Okay, so I'm going to acknowledge that in the open and be transparent about that.
Darrell Harrison:However, ultimately, what we want our hearts to be changed, that's what, ultimately, what we want. We want believe. We want unredeemed, unregenerate believers to come to faith in Jesus Christ and by coming to faith in him, the Holy Spirit now indwells them, so their entire view of the world changes to one that mirrors what scripture says about ourselves, about the world. So, yes, I would love to see policies reflect God's principles and precepts, but ultimately, policies don't change the heart. Policies do not change the heart.
Scott Allen:I'd love to just piggyback on what you're saying, because I couldn't agree more fervently with what you're saying, although like you, I mean I do. I really appreciate and honor Christians who are involved in the policy arena on issues of life or education or you name it. You know they're involved in politics and policy. Those are important fights, but to put our hope in that, apart from people's hearts, and minds being changed.
Scott Allen:I don't think is right. We've got to go more upstream and you know we have to. I was thinking as you were talking about the issue of slavery and how. You know, in the New Testament, you know, there wasn't some big policy push to outlaw slavery in the Roman Empire. You know, coming out of the Church, but what you had was something actually more powerful, in a real way. You had a complete paradigm shift, you know, in terms of how we think about master and slave, and you know Paul made this explicit in several of his letters. Right, you know including oh, what's the small book Onesimus?
Darrell Harrison:you know yeah, Philemon.
Scott Allen:Philemon. I mean you know you have to think completely differently now about if you're a master, about your slave and if you're a slave, about your master, because you're all brothers and sisters in Christ and you all have equal. That is a worldview level shift at the level of what does it mean to be a human being, what does it mean to be a believer in Jesus Christ? And that has to come before you're going to get a policy change, which did come under people like William Wilberforce, of course, much later you know where you've got the eradication of slave trade in England and later in the United States. You know the Bible put its emphasis on that worldview shift coming out of the heart shift. Now you're a new person in Jesus Christ. Now you've got to think differently. And once those pieces were put in place, slavery is just going to come to an end. It can't continue. Right, right, right.
Darrell Harrison:That's the that was the. When you look at the abolition movement, you mentioned Wilberforce and the influence and the impact that he had on slavery over in England. But you look at the abolitionist movement here in America, you know, leading up to the Emancipation Proclamation and whatnot, that the abolition movement was essentially an Imago Dei movement. This was a movement that was built upon the foundational truth, the universal truth of Genesis 127. Slavery ended because, over time, people began to understand that every single human being on the face of this planet is created in the image of God. It doesn't matter what your ethnicity is, it doesn't matter what your cultural background is. Every single human being that inhabits this planet was created in the image of God. That is ultimately what brought slavery to an end in England and America. That's what convicted Wilberforce, a former slave trader okay, a former slave owner, william Wilberforce.
Darrell Harrison:So when you look at how the subject of slavery is so casually bantered about in the culture today, you know as it's being used as a bargaining tool to get reparations, people are what I call monetizing suffrage. They're monetizing historical suffrage in order to get a paycheck from the government. But yeah, again, scott, you bring up a great example of what it means to be a Christian apologist. Are you equipped, as a Christian, to answer a reparationist, to use scripture to answer a reparationist and say, no, slavery is an Imago Dei issue? Reparations is stealing. Reparations totally goes against the biblical model of uh uh, reconciliation and remuneration remuneration where a sin was actually committed, yeah, okay. So, for example, scott, I cannot argue that you owe me reparations because you haven't sinned against me. What do you?
Scott Allen:yeah to me that's the biggest argument against reparations is that— Ridiculous yeah.
Scott Allen:I mean, there's a place for people to—for wrongs that you've done. What's the word I'm looking for here? To—it's not reparations, but it's to pay, to make a payment for the wrong that you've done. But it's got to be kind of you personally. And the Bible makes a big point out of the fact that even children, you know, aren't going to be held responsible for the sins of their fathers, much less several generations later. You know that's a biblical understanding of justice. You know, and we're not, you know. So the reparations thing is we're going to lump everyone into these broad, clumsy categories of skin color, and some people are going to pay and some people are going to pay and some people are going to receive.
Dwight Vogt:It's just, it's just it. You know, it's just when I, you guys are triggering a thought for me. I was thinking of robert scirocco of the acton institute and he talked about um, if you get, if you get what it means to be human right, you'll get everything else right. He was talking about economics, he was talking about education, he was talking about justice and, daryl, you said it was an Imago Dei movement in America and I thought, wow, that is so powerful, because if I think of education and if we could make that an Imago Dei movement, it would be a great argument and I don't know if you're following the revolution too at the end of it, isn't well every everyone, but but but even education.
Dwight Vogt:I was thinking why, anyway, I was thinking about the other day that that if you recognize the uniqueness of a human being as a child, each one has his own learning capacity, each has his own, but each has a calling, each has a, a future. And how would you educate that child? And anyway, people don't think that way, they just go. Well, let's, let's create the education factory and we'll produce, right, this kind of person but anyway, it's just mago day it's ma Mago Day. That's the answer. I think so here you go.
Darrell Harrison:Genesis 127 levels the playing field for everybody. You can apply Genesis 127 and the universal principle and truth that God created every individual in his image, male and female. You can apply that principle to everything in the world. Education DEI goes away. Dei goes away. The world education dei goes away. Dei goes away. Reparations goes away um social justice goes away.
Dwight Vogt:He made us unique. Psalms 139. He made us unique, absolutely unique. So we're precious for our uniqueness as well as our value in his image, you know anyway, yeah so, so.
Darrell Harrison:So again, as an apologist, you know, we need to be able to, dwight, as you just did. We need to be able to look at these worldview issues and articulate them, engage in discourse about them through the lens of what Scripture says. And I keep going back to Scripture, because what does Jesus say in John 17? He asked the Father to sanctify us in his truth, that his word is truth. You've heard it said before. All truth is God's truth. So, whether we're talking about scripture or what God has revealed of himself in creation through general revelation, you know, if we would just apply the unbiased, equitable principles and precepts that we find in scripture, all this stuff would go away. The problem is is that in our sin nature, we don't want, we really don't want what God, what his word, defines as equity. We don't want that.
Darrell Harrison:Now, a great example from scripture would be the situation in which King Solomon had to adjudicate that situation between the two female prostitutes who were arguing over who was the mother of the live baby. There were two babies One had died, there was one remained alive. And you recall that when God appointed Solomon to succeed his father, david, that God asked, solomon said hey, ask me whatever you want and I'll grant it to you. And Solomon, in an incredible demonstration of wisdom, said give me wisdom to judge this people. Just give me wisdom to judge this people. And we see that wisdom on display in that situation. This is a great example of the distinction between equality and equity Equality- comes in wherein.
Darrell Harrison:Solomon applied God's law equally to both the women. He applied God's law equally to both of them. Equity came in. Equity is God's principle of fairness. This is his principle of doing what is righteous, based on the truth. So equity meant that only one of those women was going to leave with that baby. Equity meant one of those women was going to leave without a baby.
Darrell Harrison:You see, but we need to understand distinctions like that through scripture so that we can understand well, dei is not only wrong, it's sinful because it's ethnic partiality against one ethnic group, probably more than one ethnic group in favor of another ethnic group. So I argue against DEI on the basis of a text like James 2.9. You know you should show there is no impartiality with God. So DEI is sinful. Partiality.
Darrell Harrison:Social justice again, I argue against social justice from a text like Leviticus 19, 15. You shall do no injustice in judgment, you shall not be partial to the poor nor defer to the great, but you are to judge your neighbor. Failing Social justice, by definition, is sinful. Because is sinful because it shows deference to the poor and it makes the rich or the great the enemy. So again, if we're going to be biblical apologists, we have to be so familiar with God's Word that we can argue articulately against these worldviews from the standpoint of what Scripture says and not just say well, you know that's wrong, or I'm against that, or I support that. We need to be able to establish why.
Scott Allen:Yeah, and Daryl, just to add to what you're saying there, you know, in terms of arguing against these things, to me the deepest level of it is that you know, the worldview of social justice, or the ideology of social justice, justice or the ideology of social justice or wokeness, it's atheistic and it basically says, you know, there is no God, all there is is power. And then it divides humanity up into groups based on things like skin color, sex, gender, and it says every one of these groups is either in a position of leveraging their power to you know, exploit selfishly people that don't have power. That is the worldview, that's the world that they see, that's all there is. And so good and evil is a function of what group are you in. The evil is caused by this group or that group. Well, that's completely different from what the Bible says. I mean, yeah, the Bible goes deeper and it says, no, the evil is because we're all sinners, right? That?
Darrell Harrison:line between good and evil.
Scott Allen:All you know. It comes right out of our heart. Right? You can't point to that group over there and say the problem with the world is you. You've got to point that finger back inside of yourself and so you've got to change. If you want to change the world, you've got to change, you know, through faith in Jesus, it's you know, something you've got to do. That's why I think it's you know. Some have labeled it a false gospel because it gives a sense of justification to a particular group of people where none is deserved. They need to be saved, but they feel like they're justified because of whatever those external characteristics are so.
Darrell Harrison:Yeah, what you just did there, scott, maybe unbeknownst to you. You just gave a pretty, uh pretty succinct definition of what marxism is yeah you know marxism. Marxism is rooted in, uh, division, uh, classes, uh. This is why critical race theory, which is an out out offshoot of marx, a tenet of Marxism, does exactly that Critical race theory. And what I want your listeners to understand when they hear the word critical critical pedagogy, critical theory, critical health justice, things like that when they hear the word critical, that word critical doesn't mean analytical.
Scott Allen:So normally you and I. That's correct. No, that's important to understand. That's right yeah.
Darrell Harrison:Yeah, when we say, well, we're going to take a critical look at something, that means we're going to take an objective, analytical look at something, dice it up, put it back together and see what that leads to. But in critical race theory the word critical means to criticize. It means to criticize.
Scott Allen:Yeah, it means there's some kind of nefarious thing behind things that look like freedom or justice. Oh, you use that word freedom, but what you really are doing is leveraging it for your own power. They're always kind of trying to get at that.
Darrell Harrison:There's some ulterior motive here for you Exactly right, because that's all there is Well.
Scott Allen:power in this worldview, too, is always negative, right, it's only used for one purpose only to oppress. The Bible says no power rightly used is used. I mean Jesus, the most powerful being in the universe, laid down his life for the good of others. I mean that is revolutionary, you know, but that worldview doesn't exist. In this worldview, power isn't completely negative and only used to oppress.
Darrell Harrison:Well, you know, power is only negative until you can get it. Until you can get it Right, you can have it. You know. Then, all of a sudden, it's not negative. That's right, this is what.
Scott Allen:Well, and that's why this is not a workable worldview. It just pits people against each other, destroys any hope of any kind of relationship that you could have with one another if we're always just trying to fight to get on top of the pyramid, right.
Darrell Harrison:Right, that's so perfectly said, scott. This is exactly what critical race theory does. Critical race theory divides people into categories and then, by definition, it creates antagonistic relationships between those people. So they begin to hate one another, dislike one another, distrust one another.
Scott Allen:That's right.
Darrell Harrison:All the behavioral characteristics that grow out of critical race theory and ethnic prejudice are antithetical to what the gospel teaches, are antithetical to what the gospel teaches In terms of you. Take Ephesians 2, where God has torn down that wall of division. Critical race theory is an ideology that builds that wall back up, and that's exactly what we're seeing with CRT DEI, social justice. I've argued for years. You don't need to put a modifier like the word social and add it to the word justice, because, scripturally speaking, there's either justice or there's injustice. There's one or the other.
Darrell Harrison:So when we latch on, when we as the church, we latch on to worldly terminology and worldly vernacular, we're setting ourselves up for defeat, because unless we can recapture those words, the last thing a believer in Christ should do is use the world's terms, because when you use the world's terms, you end up fighting on the world's turf and then you're going to end up losing every time you, you're, you're preaching from the book I just finished writing, which is on words and the power of words, and there's nothing more powerful than the biblical definitions of these key words, and the way that the enemies of the gospel want to change is they want to redefine those words.
Scott Allen:So you're right on spot on. Hey, listen, we're running out of time, daryl, and I would be remiss if I didn't. I know we're going to change the subject dramatically here a bit, but I do want to talk about your most recent book and would love to have you back on and continue this part of the discussion, but what I'm talking about here is a book that you just recently published with Virgil Walker your friend Virgil titled A Biblical Theology of Climate Change. That was published by G3 Press. I would encourage all of our listeners to go over to the G3 website and you can look at this book, you can purchase it, and I encourage you to do that Just before, again, before we leave. I just wouldn't mind hearing a little bit of your thought on that. What caused you to be focusing on that as a subject? And you know what caused you to be focusing on that as a subject and and you know what what drove you to write this book, if you don't mind, daryl.
Darrell Harrison:Yes, scott, yeah, be glad to, and speaking of being glad, so I will be glad to come back on with you guys to discuss this topic even further because it's a very complex topic to navigate.
Scott Allen:Yes, I know we're not going to begin to do it justice, but I just wanted to at least put it on the table here.
Darrell Harrison:Yeah so.
Darrell Harrison:Virgil Walker again, who's my co-host on the Just Thinking podcast. We've we don't shy away from tough topics. I mean, we've done critical race theory, we've done gender identity, we've done slavery, we've done all that stuff. Critical race theory, we've done the enneagram, all that kind of stuff. The critical race theory stood out to us because, like the like, like those other topics that I just mentioned, we saw evidence that the church was starting to buy into this thing. They were starting to buy into this thing and they were starting to buy into it not knowing what it really is, but critical, I'm sorry, critical.
Darrell Harrison:There is critical climate change, but we'll talk about that later. But climate change, climate change is one of the most demonic, surreptitious ideologies to come against the church in a long, long time, and what it does is all. First of all, it's about the vernacular. So climate change is a nearly 70 year old worldview that, when you dig deep into it, scott, has nothing to do with saving the environment, improving the environment, but has everything to do with population control. You can go all the way back to the 60s. One of the one of the books I read in preparation for writing the book we also have a podcast episode on. This was a book by Dr Paul Ehrlich called the Population Bomb. That was written in 1968.
Darrell Harrison:To promote abortion and to promote population control and reduction for the sake of appeasing a pantheistic pagan goddess by the name of Gaia G-A-I-A. So in the book we talk about Gaianism and where that came from. So climate change is really a religion. It is a religion grounded in Middle Eastern paganism, whereby elitists again, global elitists are pushing these policies like EVs, electric vehicles, and they're saying you can't use air conditioning, you can't use refrigeration, you have to kill all the cows, you can't eat meat. All these kind of things are religious in mother earth. Earth and climate change is an entity, is a living entity with rights, and it has more rights than human beings, which is why climate change cannot be separated from population reduction. So the fear mongers who are promoting climate change will say well, we need people to stop getting married, you're having too many children, you're driving too many cars. This is all about population control so as to appease the God that they worship.
Scott Allen:Wow, well, yeah, boy, this is a topic I care deeply about and I've spoken out many years ago against the crisis du jour of the day, which wasn't climate, but it was overpopulation, and you had guys like Paul Ehrlich speaking into that. And you know the population bomb. You know, if we don't curb human population, we're going to destroy this world. That's the connection to environment and climate and things like that. And, as you said too, you know, once you dismiss God, these are ultimately atheistic worldviews, at least atheistic in the sense they don't believe in the God of the Bible, they don't believe in creation. So what are you left to worship? You know not the Creator, but creation itself. You know that's what you are worshiping, and so you're correct to call it a religion. That's what you are worshiping, and so you're correct to call it a religion. Boy, would I love to talk more about that. It's so relevant here in the state of Oregon because it's deeply believed and it's driving so much policy in really harmful ways.
Darrell Harrison:Yeah, and when you look at it, scott, especially you there being in Oregon, you're front and center of this stuff. You know you got really have trees, nature, what they would call nature has more rights than human beings.
Scott Allen:You know and see, by the way, that's not. You know, you're not speaking with hyperbole. There there actually is a legal movement to give right, legal rights to right in annabelle, objects like trees and lakes and things like that. Yeah, it's a movement.
Darrell Harrison:And the climate change movement is what's called Earth Law. It's called Earth Law, so your listeners need to study up on everything that they can find on Earth Law. Go out and read the United Nations Charter for Paris 2030. Whenever you hear the word 2030, 2035, this is what they're talking about. Zero emissions. This is what they're talking about. Zero, zero emissions. This is what they're talking about. They want to get people. They want to take away your liberties. They want to take away your liberties. This is what this is all about. They want. Gaia is angry. Okay, gaia is angry. With humanity, we need to reduce the population, and the irony of them pontificating about reducing the population is that it's always everybody else who has to die, not them. It's everybody else who has to die. You know, not them, so you get you get the credit.
Scott Allen:Well, I always thought that you know I mean, I was just listening to, oh, what was, um uh, jane goodall, you know, she spoke a couple years ago at the world economic forum and she was basically making the case in a passionate way that we needed to reduce world population down to something like a billion. I mean dramatic, you know, if if we were going to survive as a, as a race, a species, and I thought okay well, like who you know, you first you know, yeah, what am I?
Scott Allen:It's really nothing, you know, yeah, but I'm like it's really nothing to laugh at, though, because I do think that we are seeing them make attempts to kill off huge numbers of people, not through, you know, putting guns in people's faces, but through other means that are much more nefarious, and, you know, I'd love to hear One of those nefarious means is euthanasia.
Darrell Harrison:You're seeing euthanasia being more widely used around the world. That's all driven by climate change, guys, and you know it's interesting how the woman who you just mentioned was speaking at the world economic forum. They talk about saving the planet, but I'm like, for who? You don't want to have children? Who are we saving the planet for? You're up here, uh, trying to tell us it's dangerous to the planet to have children. So who are you going to be saving the planet for? If you follow the climate change religion to its logical conclusion, no one. Ultimately, there will be no one here. There will be no one because you can't reproduce, because reproducing is harmful to the planet. So even if they got the population down to a billion, when those billion dies off that's the logical ultimate conclusion to climate change Nobody lives because you can't reproduce.
Scott Allen:Yeah, and that shows the truly demonic roots of this, because that is Satan's agenda to steal, to kill and to destroy, and especially to destroy God's image bearers and it runs directly counter to God's love for His image bearers.
Scott Allen:You know, going back to Genesis 1-1, be fruitful, multiply, fill the earth. That's what he wants. And this idea that human beings are just a drain on the environment, that is such a false idea. Yes, we can be destroyers of the environment. We often are in our fallen condition. But as image bearers of God, we have the capacity to have godly dominion and actually protect the environment and do all sorts of positive things, create new resources. That never gets, of course, looked at or appreciated. That would go against the grain of this movement, of course. So human beings have to just be merely a blight upon this kind of perfect creation. There's a lot of biblical apologetics that I'm sure you've done in this book and that we can talk about, maybe next time you come on, daryl.
Scott Allen:I would love that because I do think I would be more than happy to absolutely yeah, that would be great Thanks for writing the book too, and just for all that you're doing to to further the cause of truth, biblical truth, true truth, uh, in a world that's uh full of lies that are very destructive, and uh, I'm just so grateful for your voice and for your courage out there, uh, dwight. Any final thoughts or comments?
Dwight Vogt:Oh, I, I've just appreciated Daryl hearing you and and it goes back to just your your podcast with Virgil, appreciate it very much. So thanks for joining us.
Darrell Harrison:Thank you. Thank you, gentlemen, for having me again. It's really been a pleasure. This has been the fastest 90 minutes that I can recently remember, but that's usually a good thing that the dialogue was hopefully the dialogue. It was enjoyable for us but helpful to your listeners.
Scott Allen:Yeah, I totally agree, daryl. Thank you so much for coming on and just again for your voice in the Church and in the culture more broadly, and just for honoring us today with your presence, and I really agree. I hope that this was helpful for all of our listeners. Thank you who are listening today to this podcast. We deeply appreciate you tuning in and hope that you'll share links with your friends and give us positive reviews as well. This is Ideas have Consequences. The podcast of the Disciple Nations Alliance.
Luke Allen:Thank you so much for listening to this episode with our amazing guest, daryl Harrison.
Luke Allen:If you'd like to learn more about him, his writings and his podcast, the Just Thinking Podcast, make sure to head over to this episode's page, which is linked in the show notes. By the way, we actually already got him back on the calendar to join us again for another episode in a couple months to tell us more about what he's learned during his writing process of his newest book, biblical Theology of Climate Change. If you head over to the episode page, you can also learn more about our newest Bible study here at the Disciple Nations Alliance that I mentioned during the break, which is called the 10 Words to Heal Our Broken World Bible Study by Scott Allen. If you'd like to grab your copy today again, that is on Amazon, or you can also just head over to the episode page or 10wordsbookorg, which is where we house everything 10 Words Book. That's it for today, guys. Thanks again for joining us for this discussion. We truly appreciate your time and attention and we hope that you'll be able to join us again next week here on. Ideas have consequences.
