Ideas Have Consequences
Everything that we see around us is the product of ideas, of ideologies, of worldviews. That's where everything starts. Worldviews are not all the same, and the differences matter a lot. How do you judge a tree? By its fruits. How do you judge a worldview? By its physical, tangible, observable fruit. The things it produces. Ideas that are noble and true produce beauty, abundance, and human flourishing. Poisonous ideas produce ugliness. They destroy and dehumanize. It really is that simple. Welcome to Ideas Have Consequences, the podcast of Disciple Nations Alliance, where we prepare followers of Christ to better understand the true ideas that lead to human flourishing while fighting against poisonous ideas that destroy nations. Join us, and prepare your minds for action!
Ideas Have Consequences
Our Story: The Genesis of Disciple Nations Alliance | Bob Moffitt
Why do we love what we do at Disciple Nations Alliance?
Can an idea change a culture? History says yes.
In this episode, we journey back to the origins of Disciple Nations Alliance with co-founder Bob Moffitt to share why we love what we do and uncover how we've seen biblical truth sparking transformation in communities worldwide for the last 30 years.
Bob shares the pivotal moments that shaped DNA’s mission—stories of ordinary people stepping out in faith to bring extraordinary change. From humble beginnings to global impact, we explore how local churches are reclaiming their role as catalysts for both spiritual renewal and secondly for cultural renewal.
Hear inspiring real-life examples of people who have embraced God's full plan for their lives and have been powerfully used to catalyze flourishing and healing in their local communities.
- View the transcript, leave comments, and check out recommended resources on the Episode Landing Page!
- Podcast episode with Randall Hoag: Changed Mindsets Change Nations
- Learn more about DNA’s free online Kingdomizer 101 Training: Truth and Transformation.
Welcome again, everyone, to another episode of Ideas have Consequences. This is the podcast of the Disciple Nations Alliance. I'm Scott Allen, I'm the president of the DNA, joined today by Dwight Vogt and Luke Allen, and today we're honored to have as our special guest co-founder of the Disciple Nations Alliance, longtime friend, chairman of the board of the Disciple Nations Alliance, bob Moffitt. Bob, it's great to have you with us today.
Bob Moffitt:It's great to be here.
Scott Allen:You know we've had you on Bob before, but we thought, gosh, it'd be great to have you back on again. And Luke was talking to me about how he, as a kind of a second-generation DNA person, wasn't clear about some of the origins of the DNA. So he had questions and we thought let's get Bob on and maybe Darrow at some point too, to go back to the beginnings, go back to the origins of the DNA, and that's what we want to do today. So, because I was around at that time, I'm going to pass the baton to Luke for questions and I'll kind of take the seat of the interviewee, I guess. Luke, why don't you take it away?
Luke Allen:Yeah Well, thanks, Dad. Yeah, I'm excited for today. This is an episode that I've wanted to do for a little while. This is Ideas have Consequences, but it is, as you guys know, the podcast of the Disciple Nations Alliance. We used to call it the Disciple Nations Alliance podcast, but that's just a mouthful, so we decided to rebrand to give it a little bit of a unique feel with ideas have consequences, but we all work and serve at the Disciple Nations Alliance here.
Luke Allen:So if you're wondering who we are, what we do, why we do what we do, today I kind of want to unpack, like you were saying, dad, the origin story, a little walk down memory lane of the DNA. So, um, you guys listening, we'll have a little bit of a better idea of, yeah, what we're passionate about, where that came from, um, where these ideas, you know, originally sprouted from. Uh, so I know for myself, I've been, I I think the DNA outlives me. So a lot of this happened in my wee years. So I don't know much of it.
Luke Allen:And I know, Dad, you were a part of the very early on stages of the Disciple Nations Alliance. Bob and Darrow were the founders and Dwight, you were there as well, going to the teachings and trainings around the world. So all of you guys know a lot more than I do and are listeners. So, yeah, let's unpack it. I'm excited To get things started. We were just talking about this before the episode, before we launched the episode here, but I'd like to know, Bob, if you can remember where that initial spark of idea for cultural discipleship, that vision for cultural discipleship, and what eventually became the DNA, where that first idea sprung into someone's mind. Where was that? When was that? Do you remember?
Bob Moffitt:that. Well, it's really in two areas, luke. You know I would say that the idea was born for the DNA, both separately in Darrow's mind and in mine. We were both very concerned about the poor and that growing into a concern. For how do we see cultural change in nations around the world where there were so many poor and especially the church, respond in a way and be taught to respond in a way, in obedience to God, to how to love their neighbors? And that definitely had its roots in the idea of how does the culture change, how does a nation change, culture change, how does the nature, the nation change, and what can we do in our respective ministries and we were working in two different ministries, tarot and Food for the Hungry, and me with Harvest and we're, you know, independently thinking about. You know what is God's call on our lives? To see that cultural change take place.
Luke Allen:Yeah, so you guys both came from that background in Relief and Development Ministries and because of that you weren't seeing the impact that you were expecting, I guess, and that was kind of the pain point yeah it, it wasn't that we weren't seeing it at all, it was that it was.
Bob Moffitt:It could be a lot more. And we had a vision, uh, independently, of seeing that happen. Daryl from the perspective of content, ideas and philosophy, and mine from the perspective of how do you empower the local church to do that. And it was very interesting.
Bob Moffitt:We were both very involved in teaching and speaking, and, and one group that was a real recipient of our teaching both Darrell's and mine separately was a woman by the name of Chris Colby, who's still very much involved in youth mission, and she called us both and she said you guys have both taught for us. I think you should teach together. And we said that sounds great, but we're both too busy to do that. And she said no, really, I'm very serious that you guys your messages complement each other Come together. And our response was we're too busy. And she said give me three days. What do you mean? Give me three days.
Bob Moffitt:I want to come to Arizona because we were both there at that time and let's pray and fast and see what the Lord does out of that time. So you know, we both said, okay, well, we'll figure that out. So we she came and we got together for several days of prayer and fasting just the three of us, and at the end of that time we didn't agree to teach together, except for one time. We said, okay, let's give it a shot. And so there was a course in Latin America and she invited us to come and teach. So we did and we both had. It's really interesting, neither of us had heard one another teach, but for the first time, as we talked together, we could see the synergy.
Dwight Vogt:But you're also friends already, right, bob? Oh yeah, yeah, that goes way back.
Bob Moffitt:That goes way, way back.
Dwight Vogt:Yeah, your friendship goes way back.
Bob Moffitt:That's a whole back story, Dwight, that I don't know if we have time for.
Dwight Vogt:So you were in Peru then, or where was that teaching in Latin America?
Bob Moffitt:I can't remember whether it was Latin school no that was in Tyler, Texas. In Tyler Texas. Yes, in Tyler Texas. That was where.
Scott Allen:Christine Colby was a bass leader at the time. Yeah, the first ever.
Bob Moffitt:Yeah, the first time we taught together and Vishal was there as well, she actually said Darryl, bob, and Vishal need to come together how did
Luke Allen:you ever get a word in?
Bob Moffitt:That's a great question, Well it's because there was a scheduled class, and so we taught for a week together at this school, but I had never, neither of us had ever, heard each other teach and and and it was. It was like magic, I mean, all three messages really fit like hands and gloves. And, and so we told Chris afterwards, okay, let's see what might happen. And after that we had an opportunity to teach in Peru, in Lima, peru, and so we went to Lima not Vishal, he wasn't there with us and we taught with a group of pastors that had come in from all over the country. I'll never forget that one, luke.
Bob Moffitt:There were pastors from mainstream churches, large churches as well as large churches as well as country pastors who had to borrow shoes literally from the amazon to come to that conference and some had walked, as I recall, a couple of days to get there. And so you know, we hadn't taught together before, except for that one time in Tyler, texas. But the Holy Spirit was clearly there and spoke to these sophisticated pastors of seminary training as well as to the jungle pastors seminary training as well as to the jungle pastors and I was amazed to see that this message, especially Darrell's message on worldview, was presented so simply that even these formerly uneducated pastors from the Amazon jungle in Peru could understand and respond. It was absolutely amazing.
Bob Moffitt:Well, those were the first two conferences and then, it spread to Africa from there and we really didn't think of forming an organization. It was just we were teaching together and a message that and Daryl often said, I give you the ideas. If you want to know how to implement it, you've got to talk to Bob. If you want to know how to implement it, you've got to talk to Bob.
Luke Allen:And so it was that sort of combination of the theory and the application and it was after we had done that for some time that we began to talk about how could we do this formally together, gotcha, wow, that's really helpful and it's cool because that's still the way that our basic training is outlined with On the front end of the Kingdomizer training program. We have the theory and the worldview and why these ideas matter, and then, right after that, is your course on how to apply this, and I remember the first time I went through it. I had all these ideas in my head after hearing Darrow speak, and dad as well, on worldview and, oh my gosh, this is life-changing, paradigm shifting. But now what? And then you step in. Here's some simple things you can do. I love that and, yeah, that training remains the same today. So Vishal Mangowati and Chris Colby shout out to them for getting this thing going and pushing you guys a little bit to to get this going. We'll have to send them this episode well, it wasn't.
Bob Moffitt:It wasn't a look that we didn't want to get together, we were just so busy traveling around the world teaching that it didn't seem like we hadn't. We hadn't contemplated synchronizing and doing it together simultaneously, but Chris was the spearhead for that and now we see what God has done through that.
Luke Allen:Yeah, dad, you were around during these early vision conferences, these meetings. You worked at FH Food for the Hungry with Darrow during this time what year was this? And what was happening in the world at this time? To kind of lay the grounds for this as well. Because I know, you know, this teaching that we do is not exactly new in church history by any means, but it really struck a chord at that time and seems to continue to strike a chord, and I think God has just placed this message on our hearts during this time for a specific reason. It's not a new message again, but he just, you know, has revised it, given it to us, and we're speaking into our cultural moment. So could you give us a little history there, dan?
Scott Allen:Yeah, I can talk a little bit about, kind of fill in some of the gaps there. From Bob's recollection I actually wasn't at that conference at Tyler Texas. I was working at Food for the Hungry and working very closely with Darrow at the time. And it's interesting, darrow was one of the executives at Food for the Hungry but he was pretty much marginalized and sidelined at that time. I can explain why, and so his passion was to teach and train people to think biblically in a way that laid a foundation for human flourishing and development and you would think that would resonate in FH. I'll explain why it didn't in a second. So he was out teaching, mainly outside of Food for the Hungry in places like Tyler Texas with Youth with a Mission, mainly outside of Food for the Hungry in places like Tyler Texas with Youth with a Mission. He had some permission to do that but he was kind of marginalized At the time.
Scott Allen:The broader context beyond Food for the Hungry in missions that I recall was that missions was very divided between two groups. One group was kind of Christian relief and development group organizations like World Vision and Food for the Hungry, and our focus and emphasis was on poverty alleviation and these groups tended to be very technical in their orientation. You know if we can do X number of projects and we have a lot of you know data. Big money was involved in it, which is really actually quite ironic because just right now, president Trump in the United States has just rescinded government funding of groups like USAID, and that was a huge debate in Food for the Hungry. At that time, we were receiving millions of dollars from USAID and people like Dara were saying.
Scott Allen:You know, this isn't just money with no strings attached. This comes with a worldview, this kind of secular enlightenment, rationalistic worldview, that really doesn't have any—it's very different than a biblical approach. If you take a strictly biblical approach to poverty fighting, you don't end up with this strictly rationalist kind of, you know, technical approach. But the mindset of the Christians in Food for the Hungry at the time was very much sacred secular.
Luke Allen:When was this again? This was you know, this was in the late 90s, you know pretty much, you know.
Scott Allen:So, yeah you know, we're Christians, we pray in the morning and then we go do community development work in the same way that secular organizations do it, and that's fine. You know, community development is a secular, technical kind of thing, and if we get money from the government, that's fine. And Dara was saying no, there isn't a separation. We need to be thinking biblically about how we do community development. And so there was that debate going on inside FH. And then on the other side you had Christian mission organizations and their focus was almost entirely on church planting. How do we get churches planted in unreached people groups and get people saved? That was what they were focused entirely on. Talk about poverty alleviation, they didn't like that because that seemed to them to be kind of a distraction from this primary goal of getting people saved. And so that was the broader context. There was literally two different networks in the United States, one for the church planters and evangelists organization type organizations, and the other for Christian relief and development, and they didn't like each other very well. They didn't connect very much. So that's the broader context.
Scott Allen:And anyways, bringing it up to the point where the DNA was formed, this was 1997, and the president at the time, randy Hogue, finally Darrow, and you know he basically kind of convinced him that hey, this whole secular, usaid-funded approach to community development isn't, this isn't who we are. And there was a whole effort in FH to kind of reform ourselves based on Christian vision and mission. What did we call it, dwight? There was this whole vision of a community. I guess Christian community.
Scott Allen:And out of that, darrow or, excuse me, randy the president went to Darrow and said Darrow, why don't you take what you've been teaching outside of FH and bring it right into the heart of what we're doing? And let's start with the way that we work with local churches in these impoverished communities that we're working in, because clearly the local church is central to seeing change, positive change. And so we invited Bob to come to. Because Bob was working with local churches and had a teaching for local churches, we invited him to come and join us in the Philippines for a conference and when we heard Bob talk about a biblical approach to poverty fighting and the central role of the local church, we realized we had been doing it wrong. These are the leaders and the country directors of FH.
Scott Allen:Randy led us in a moment of repentance over our unbiblical approach towards poverty fighting, especially as it related to the local church. And then, from that point, randy went to Darrow and myself, essentially on the FH side, and said we need to change, start something new, start something with local churches in our fields that will empower them with biblical truth in a way that they take the leadership in seeing positive change in their communities and it isn't reliant on huge grants of money from USAID and technical know-how. You know this secular approach to development. So he gave space to that. And then we went to Bob and said, bob, let's work together. And that gave rise to the Vision Conference in Peru that you spoke of, the very first one we did.
Luke Allen:Yeah, shout out to Randy Hogue as well. He was an integral part of this whole process as well.
Scott Allen:Very integral, yeah.
Luke Allen:I'll link the episode that we did with him a little while back in the description If you guys want to listen to that. In the during that episode we talk about some of those early discussions where he kind of gave the green light to Darrow and, uh, uh, my dad and the other guys to get this thing rolling. Uh, during his time as the president of food for the Hungry Dwight, you were at a couple of those very, very early on vision conferences. What were those? Like Bob was just sharing that. It was clearly the Holy Spirit was moving. The messages were reaching people from all different walks of society. What was your general takeaway from those? Share us a story.
Dwight Vogt:Yeah, I think it was. I'm thinking about Randy and his journey and what shaped his thinking and Bob and his thinking and Darrow. And I remember, bob, the first time we met, I rode with you on a bus up to northern Thailand in August, I think, of 1980. Way, way before any of this happened. And you were talking about a discipleship and the little book you were writing on discipling the church, and it was so different and I thought, well, I hope you sell. That's really different, bob. That's just you know. And your ideas of discipleship were surrounded by loving your neighbor and loving God. And I'm thinking, well, that's you know. I guess that's you know anyway, I might be Christian.
Dwight Vogt:Yeah, I might be Christian, it just didn't, you know. You know where's all the theology there, you know. Anyway, it was brilliant and so that's. But I remember just wrestling with ideas because of you and my exposure to you and to Darrell and to others, and Food for Hungry, and I too was wrestling with what are we doing? What are we doing? What are we doing? You know what's going on here.
Dwight Vogt:And I remember the first time that I remember sitting down in the FH office and we had decided that we were going to, as an organization, support this idea a little bit at least that's what Randy was talking and you and Daryl came into the boardroom for three days and shared the Vision Conference content with us, and you were there not to convince us but to ask us for our critique, and it was a select group of staff Maybe, scott, you were in there too. I was there, steve Corbett, and we were supposed to critique you in terms of your delivery and how you were, how it was formatted, and then one idea jumped to the next. Did it structure well? And I remember just thinking I don't really care. This is just gripping my heart.
Dwight Vogt:And and I remember getting emotional at times just listening to you guys because I'd struggled with all these ideas and I just thought this is, this is gold. You know, I remember the feeling I had in those three days in that boardroom long, long days and uh. And then I got the privilege of attending some conferences with you and Darrell outside in Indonesia and northeast Thailand and different places. Had the same experience again and again, but that was mine.
Luke Allen:I had been wrestling with the ideas and all once I heard them combined and I was just like, oh my goodness, this is cool yeah, and for people who have gone through some of our training, they'll know a little bit of what you're talking about there, dwight. But for anyone newer who hasn't gone through some of our training, they'll know a little bit of what you're talking about there, dwight. But for anyone newer who hasn't gone through the Kingdomizer program, any of our basic courses here at the Disciple Nations Alliance, bob, what was the general thrust of those early teachings? What was the gold there that God had kind of placed on your heart and Darrow's heart during those first years?
Bob Moffitt:Well, let me preface.
Luke Allen:That's a big question, I know, but if you could give us a synopsis, yeah.
Bob Moffitt:I want to preface that by saying one of the things that really grabbed my heart was that most of the pastors and leaders that we were talking to were not sophisticated people. They were simple, primarily rural or economically depressed areas of urban areas, and these were people that were really hungry for an answer and I realized then the importance of taking what was really a very complex issue. When you talk about human development, physical development, you know of a culture. I mean, this is really complex, but I knew and sensed that we couldn't present it in a complex way. The principle of KISS keep it simple, stupid was really important, and I can remember when we first started with Harvest and some of our staff were criticizing us me for looking at human development too simplistically. They had been at a university taking courses in human development and looked at the 40 or 50, some categories of Maslow's hierarchy of needs and how in the world do you, do you make that simple? Well, I think Dr Luke made it simple for us and Jesus developed in wisdom and stature in favor with God and man and you can boil all of Maslow's complex presentation of the anatomy of human need down into very simple terms. So I realized that the ideas that were presented needed to be presented in a way that could be comprehended by even the most simple people in the village, and so we really worked at that, trying to help pastors understand that God is the one who heals the culture. You're not, but his promise to heal is based on your application of his will to the degree that you understand it in your context. And so you know, we began to try to write curriculum and presentations that took these complex issues and made them understandable at the village level.
Bob Moffitt:Of our perspective, and particularly mine, in trying to help very simple pastors understand that the way forward is not complex. It's a matter of being obedient to what God has called you and your people to do, which is love your neighbor and not wait for outside resources to do it. Use what you already have in your hand and give those to God and sacrificially serve in your community. And as we went along for a number of years, we've seen incredible examples of what God has done with this. I just got a report Let me just talk a little bit about this Yesterday from one of the pastors. He wasn't even a pastor, he was just a teenage member of a six-member church, and he came back from our conference and the pastor said well, what did you learn?
Scott Allen:This was in Nairobi, wasn't it Bob? It was in Nairobi, yeah.
Bob Moffitt:And the pastor said what did you learn? He said we need to use our resources to bless the community. And the pastor said nice, you're unemployed. I'm the only part-time employed person in our whole little church, so what are we supposed to do? He asked that sarcastically to Meshach, this young guy, and he said well, they taught us the way we start is to pray and ask God. Beth said okay, let's do that.
Bob Moffitt:So they got together and they prayed and they heard a bunch of little children running around outside this 10 by 10 foot building where they held church. I mean really small Talk about a held church. I mean really small Talk about a small church. And together these people thought you know what? We don't have any trained pastors, any trained teachers. But Meshack, you can read and write, you know how to do math, you're a good student. Why don't you offer to be a teacher to these kids who aren't in school? Well, that turned into an amazing school which has since grown into a secondary school. I just got a report yesterday, two days ago, of this school, which is now 24 years old, where they now have community leaders, national leaders, who are graduates of this school. They've started a number of other schools, and it's that seeing these simple ideas multiply and grow into impacts that have a true impact on the culture. Yeah.
Bob Moffitt:It's an illustration of the truth of what we've been teaching. You don't always see it at the beginning. This report that I got is 24 years after the secondary school had been started, so the evidence is in the pudding. I mean, you start, you watch it grow, you wonder if anything's going to happen and then, when you let it cook long enough, you see God's hand of multiplication, which is clearly supernatural.
Luke Allen:Yeah, it's a fun season at the DNA right now because DNA's been going almost 30 years now and we're starting to get these reports back from those early vision conferences, conferences and those small seed projects that people decided to do coming away from those conferences and the impacts that some of those can have. You know, time multiplied is incredible, just to watch the way that God can do the small action, the small decision from a guy like Meshack.
Luke Allen:decision from a guy like Meshack. I'm guessing that the teaching that he heard from you that week was something along the lines of your church is a window teaching.
Bob Moffitt:Yes.
Luke Allen:Okay, would you mind just summarizing that for people, because the church is the window. Teaching from Bob Moffitt is actually the story behind our logo. At the DNA we have that window as a logo. So if you're wondering where that came from. That came from Bob.
Bob Moffitt:The window has four panes. Yep.
Bob Moffitt:And they each represent one of the categories of Luke 2.52. Wisdom, physical, spiritual and social. And in my teaching you have broken man on one side of the window and the other side of the window, through which broken man sees God's intentions, are God's intentions for flourishing and peace and abundance and all of that kind of thing. And the window has four panes and the window is the church, god's people, and it's as broken people in a community look through the window of the church which has those four panes, they can see God's intentions for the future, not only in eternity but now.
Bob Moffitt:But if the window is cracked or dirty, which I show is the church's disobedience to God's action and his desires in those four categories, broken people have a difficult time seeing and or believing that God cares about those areas. But if we clean the window by being active in demonstrating God's love in all areas of life, then the broken people of the community can see and begin to understand and desire the healing that comes when we abide by God's instructions in the wisdom, physical, spiritual and social areas of life. And so that's the window, the church is the window. And when the windows are dirty, who's to blame? We are, because we haven't been obedient in all the areas that God calls us to be obedient in, and to. So what's the solution? Obedience, beginning to abide by God's instructions in all those areas.
Luke Allen:That's about as simple as I can make it. That's great. I love that. That was a great refresher for me. I haven't heard that in a while. It's always good to remember that. Dad, during these same years there was a split, that happened and the DNA decided to become its own organization, branch off from Food for the Hungry. That, I believe, was mainly led by you, and you took up the role of the president of the Disciple Nations Alliance. Twofold question here. One, if you could just answer the same question I just asked, bob what was at the heart of that key teaching that God placed on your guys' hearts and minds during this time? If you could give a little summary of that and then you know. Part two if you could just connect the dots to the DNA becoming an organization.
Scott Allen:Well, just to underscore the importance of what Bob was saying, you know, our vision at the beginning was to see local churches, the local body of Christ in these very impoverished communities, empowered to begin the process of seeing positive change in their community with their own resources. And there were so many barriers to that. You know, they had a mindset that, first of all, our job as Christians is simply to get people saved and into our building. That's it, you know, is simply to get people saved and into our building. That's it. You know.
Scott Allen:Poverty, brokenness, these other window panes that Bob was talking about are not our concern, so they weren't addressing them, even though they lived in context of poverty. And on the other side, you had Christian relief and development organizations coming in and saying essentially yeah, you are poor, there's almost nothing you can do to help yourselves. That's our job, these Western technical enlightenment people with our big projects and big money. So both of those things had the effect of disempowering local people and our conviction was no, that's got to change, We've got to empower the body of Christ.
Scott Allen:Listen, the church has led to flourishing and development all over the world from the time of the Reformation and even before, without lots of money. Right, it was biblical teaching, but we've lost sight of it, and so we've got to get back to this core biblical teaching and discipleship that empowers people, and the genius of what Bob brought was that it gave people something to do like. It gave them a window from which to see a new way of thinking about ministry and then do something with it that empowered them. Start that school, you know, with what you have. You know literally just the little that you have, and watch how God will begin to grow and multiply that, and we've seen that over and over.
Scott Allen:And that was really the heart you know of the DNA, but I would say on the other side that Darrell kind of represented and you know this was more of my heart too it was.
Scott Allen:We just recognized that the power to see change in the world came about when Christians historically told the whole story. Change in the world came about when Christians historically told the whole story creation, fall, redemption, consummation and understood that that was a comprehensive worldview that described what it meant to be human and what human purpose was and what God's intentions were, and all of this. There's this beautiful story and furthermore, every nation operates out of its own story and if it's not the biblical story, it's a false story. It's an animistic or a secular story that leads to brokenness and poverty and all sorts of problems. The problem was the church, largely in Christian missions and relief and development were not telling the whole story. The Christian missions side was really just focusing in on the message of salvation, which is a part of our story, but it's not the whole story by any stretch. Its message was get saved and get into the church full stop.
Dwight Vogt:And on the other side it wasn't—.
Scott Allen:Yeah, and the other side wasn't telling the full story, it wasn't even trying. It was yeah, you know, we want to see people that are poor helped. That's biblical. But how we do it was entirely secular, you know, and they were fine with that, you know, as long as we prayed in the morning and whatnot, you know. So neither of these sides, these groups, were telling the biblical story that leads to transformation. That was our conviction.
Scott Allen:So Darrow would do this teaching. One of the most powerful teachings he did was called the transforming story, where he literally started by going all the way back to Genesis and started talking about how God created the heavens and the earth and then he created man in his image, with dignity, male and female, and then gave them this capacity to develop the world, to create, you know, to have dominion. And he'd often stop as he was telling this story and he'd say is that good news? Because when Christians think of good news, we always think of gospel, salvation. And the answer was always yeah, that's really good news, you know, for impoverished communities, are we telling that good news, right? Or you know? And then he would tell the whole story, you know, all the way through to the end, and he'd say this is a true story, this is the story that leads to transformation for everybody. But then he would say but we're only telling the central part of the story, the Gospels. And he would literally take a book and he'd rip part of it out and he'd say we throw the rest of this book away and we're only bringing the Gospels to the nations and saying this is all you need, is this message of salvation. Meanwhile, you're struggling with poverty because you're functioning from a different story, an animistic, a fatalistic, secular, whatever story it may be, but you've got your gospel. He says we've got to put the gospel back into this full story and tell the entire story. And then the goal isn't to get people saved, that's more of a means to an end. The end is to see nations flourishing and developing and blessed nations, discipled nations is really what God wants to see. And yeah, that doesn't happen, apart from salvation and regeneration. But you've got to tell the whole story.
Scott Allen:So that had a huge impact on people because, especially this is something I don't think we saw at the beginning impoverished people didn't know that whole story. They had only been taught that the gospel was just this message of salvation and essentially that you know all of this poverty and corruption and brokenness that you're living in, god doesn't really care about. You just need to get more people saved. And they knew that that was wrong. Like somehow the great commission couldn't just be I'm saved and living in utter poverty, like that just wasn't right. And they knew that but they didn't know. You know, it was the message that daryl brought and bob together that helped them to see it like oh, this is what we're missing, we're missing this whole story. And when they heard that, they felt so empowered, like this is what the mission is.
Scott Allen:The mission of the church is entirely different than what I thought it was. It isn't just getting people saved, it's telling this whole story and living it out in practical ways that bring positive change. That's what God wants, that's what he desires. And that was so empowering to them that you just saw it. You just saw it in their eyes, you just saw this hope kind of well up, and then they would just run with that message. So that was really, I think, in some ways the thing that really launched it. It was just this kind of we've got to reframe the mission. We're not telling the whole story. Just this kind of. We've got to reframe the mission. We're not telling the whole story. On one side you've got this secular, technical community development story that's very money centric, that's very Western, and then on the other side you've got this sacred, secular, very Gnostic story that's just get saved, get them into churches, but nobody's telling the whole story. So it was like let's get back to telling that whole story.
Luke Allen:That was very much part of the dna yep, and then that that I mean eventually that led you guys to create this. You know the dna is an organization, but we like to say it's a movement, because it really is um and uh. When did that happen? How did that happen, that little yeah?
Scott Allen:well, we got the space back to you know, the space and permission from Randy to launch this teaching, and we started with Food for the Hungry Fields. In other words, we went out to our country directors in the 30 or 50 countries that Food for the Hungry was working in and we said, hey, would you mind? We've got a teaching we want to deliver to the church on biblical worldview very practically apply that was the Bob Moffitt side of it in a way that will lead to the beginning of a movement of transformation in impoverished communities. Would you mind organizing your pastors and church leaders in Kampala or in Myanmar or wherever it will happen to be in Mozambique? You know, 2030 doesn't have to be big, we just bring them together. We'd like to share this teaching and many of the country directors did that and so we did.
Scott Allen:You know, our first conferences that deliver this teaching and application were in those fields and very often the way that it went is that people in those conferences, you know, there was always a handful of people that just were literally transformed. It just completely changed their paradigm and they committed their lives to furthering the teaching and then over time, those people became essentially the next generation of trainers, and these were indigenous peoples from many different countries in Africa, asia, latin America. But they didn't work at FH, they weren't employees of FH, they were pastors or they worked in church mission organizations or businesses. So back to Food for the Hungry. Over time, even though we had the space and the permission to do this training, people began to look inside of Food for the Hungry, going how come you're working with all these people who aren't even employees of Food for the Hungry? What exactly are you doing?
Scott Allen:And we realized that, even though Food for the Hungry gave birth to this, to a large degree, it wasn't a good fit to this. To a large degree it wasn't a good fit and that if we were going to continue to really run with this, we needed to set up an organization that had this as its own vision from the very foundation. So we got permission from the leadership of Food for the Hungry essentially to start a new organization that had as its exclusive focus this training and didn't do things like child sponsorship and all the other things that Food for the Hungry was doing. And so that kind of was the launch of the DNA as an organization. It was supported by Food for the Hungry, encouraged by Food for the Hungry.
Luke Allen:Yeah yeah, I'm curious, dwight, I'll get to you in a second. But for Bob, one thing that I think is clearly the Holy Spirit working through the Disciple Nations Alliance since day one is the fact that the people you guys are speaking to come from all different kinds of backgrounds. We're talking third world to first world, usually third world in the beginning, you know, indigenous people from the city, all different classes, demographics, and then also very interdenominational, which I always thought was fascinating. A lot of times these kind of movements of Christians tend to stay relatively within denominational lines, but one, I mean Darrow, always likes to share that story of one time I think he was teaching in Eastern Asia or Eastern um Europe and he had pretty much every denomination there. And at that time in that country there was a lot of infighting amongst um. You know the. I don't exactly know what donations they were, but you know we're the church, we all know how that works.
Bob Moffitt:And yet by the end of the week, guys were all sitting together, praying together. Um, not only did they come together, they, they repented publicly together of the division. Uh and uh and it was. It was a holy spirit event to see that confession, asking for forgiveness, pastors from opposite ends of the theological spectrum coming together, crying, hugging each other, and I mean that was a transformative moment in itself. I remember that meeting very clearly.
Luke Allen:Where was that? I'm just curious. I was in Uzbekistan in Tashkent, outside of Tashkent, interesting I know a lot of people when they hear you know, oh, you guys are speaking to all the denominations. You must water down your theology. I don't think we do. Why does this message reach so many different people?
Bob Moffitt:That's for you, bob. I'm just curious. It's the truth, and the truth resonates.
Scott Allen:I mean, yeah, we're talking about basic things, you know. God created man in his image. God created everything. God created man to have dominion. You know the messages are. They're kind of mere Christianity, as CS Lewis would call it, but people have kind of lost the sight of it, you know, in kind of their emphasis on this or that.
Bob Moffitt:Yeah, they've lost the sight of the complexity. They've lost the sight of the simpleness. The simpleness, exactly, and they focus on the complexity rather than the basics.
Scott Allen:Yeah, there's this kind of focus on this or that doctrinal difference over things like baptism. And what we were saying is, hey, let's step back a little bit. Who is the church and what's the role? What does God want the church to be doing? You know, what's the mission of the church? Some much more basic kind of questions. And that's where people were able to kind of find some unity. You know, let's put aside some of these issues about this or that eschatology or doctrine of baptism or role of the Holy Spirit, you know, and just get back to basic mission, purpose and mission of the church. And then they found, oh gosh, we actually have a lot in common.
Bob Moffitt:We believe that.
Luke Allen:I love that. That's great.
Bob Moffitt:Go ahead.
Dwight Vogt:I think one of the things that struck me and I was on the other side of the fence in Food for Lunger, I was always on the program side, trying to use science to fix people's problems, as you would say, on the program side, trying to use science to fix people's problems, he would say, but I was always thinking and pondering. And so when Darrow talked about ideas have consequences, and he painted animistic ideas and he painted naturalistic, materialistic, humanistic, atheistic ideas, secular ideas, all those were the same. And then he would paint, um, you know, theistic ideas? Um, people would go, yeah, yeah, yeah, he's, that's how we think, that's how we think those are really different ideas with really different outcomes or consequences.
Dwight Vogt:Yeah, you go, wow this one leads to fatalism. This one leads to death. This one leads to Liberty license not Liberty. You know, this one leads to selfishness and corruption and yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you know, and then Darrell saying but but there's a God's way. And then Bob steps in, he goes okay, let me tell you God's intentions. He said here's God's intentions for human beings. It's not an animistic view, it's not a materialistic view. It's God's view and you need to unpack Luke 2 5252. God grew in these four areas. Jesus grew in these four areas. Doesn't he want us to grow in those four areas? Isn't this his will for our lives? Are we focused on this? Are we loving each other in a way that goes this direction? Well, that's actually discipleship.
Scott Allen:And then one other big aha on. That was you know, bob, you always People were just like wait wait, wait, wait, wait.
Dwight Vogt:This can't be. No, no, it makes too much sense. It's almost like this is what the Bible's about to help us become the human beings that God made us to be.
Scott Allen:I think a big aha for a lot of us in FH2 is that, you know, look at Jesus. Would you call Jesus the most perfectly developed human being ever to live, right, you know? Yes, well, what you know he was, what did he have? What made him developed? It wasn't that he had, you know, a PhD from Princeton University and a lot of money. You know he was a, so it just got our. It was just a very you know. And if Jesus, this simple guy carpenter, lived, you know, didn't have any advanced education. And if Jesus, this simple guy carpenter, lived, you know, didn't have any advanced education, had a good family, right, probably wasn't starving or hungry, but, you know, didn't have an abundance of anything, if he can be the most perfectly developed, so can you, you know. Anyways, I always love that.
Dwight Vogt:It's just so basic, because I mean basic anthropology, basic economics. It was all there in the Bible Together. You had a way of saying here's what Darrell raised the questions in my mind and Bob answered them.
Bob Moffitt:This is one of my real convictions Ide ideas have consequences if they're applied, and one of the basic problems in many of our churches is we have the idea but we don't live it out, we don't apply it and, as a consequence, there's no change.
Scott Allen:Yeah, and if I could just underscore that, bob, you know in the West you know Isaac just finished my son, other son just finished seminary and you know they were big-time emphasis on kind of the head knowledge of a doctrine like love and you could explain that what it was and have a clear biblical understanding. There was a lot of emphasis on that. Can you explain it? But, like you were saying, it doesn't matter unless you actually kind of live it out. Right, if you have a correct head knowledge of this but don't live a loving lifestyle, you don't know love. And that was your big emphasis, bob was like you can't separate knowledge of this from living it out Like they don't. They just biblically you just can't separate those things.
Bob Moffitt:But many in the church do in practice and and they wonder why isn't something happening? And I think the a large part of the answer is is because you're not doing what it means to love your neighbor. You've got to put it into action if you want to see the results you think are going to happen if we think in the right way.
Scott Allen:And that tied into our worldview message too, because we often said worldview is proven not by what you have in your brain or what answers you might give to questions. The world, your personal, actual worldview, what you actually believe the world is like, is proven by what you do how you live the choices that you make.
Scott Allen:That's the proof of your worldview. So you can have a lot of Christians say say, I'm a christian, but they live their. Their functional worldview is very secular or very animistic. So we would say that's you know, that that is your worldview.
Luke Allen:Your world is proven by your actions hmm, yeah, sorry, I have four questions I want to ask at the same time. I'll edit this part out 54. Yeah, bob, just over the years. I'd love to hear one more story of someone that's really taken this, teaching, like you said, got the ideas and then did something about them and has had consequences on bringing the kingdom of God to their community.
Bob Moffitt:Well, the first story that comes to my mind is a young man who was in a class of 30 pastors that I was teaching. I don't even remember him. He tells me he was there. I believe him, and he called me one day, a couple of years after, after attending this class, and he said you know, I've been applying these simple things in our congregation.
Bob Moffitt:They gathered coal and took it to the really poor people living in yurts on the outside of Ulaanbaatar. They took clothes, they went to the river, they picked up trash, things that they could do with their own resources, but they also saw God supernaturally intervene as they were using their own resources. One example I never forget is where they were bringing heat and coal in the wintertime. Some guy pulled up with a big truck and said who are you guys? What are you doing? They told him and he said Well, I'm not a Christian, but how would you like me to bring a truckload of coal for free and dump it here on the outskirts of this community and you can distribute it? And he said I've seen that kind of thing happen in our church and I want to see this happen all over Mongolia. Would you mentor me".
Bob Moffitt:That was 15 years ago. The class was like almost 20 years ago and I said, yeah, but you're in Mongolia, I'm in the United States. So we decided to touch base with each other once a week and we've been doing that for 15 years. This young guy has a vision for his nation. Almost more than anybody else I've ever met, he wants to see the King of God come to Mongolia and he's dedicated himself since that time to teach and mentor other pastors, other men who are not even believers, and his life story is absolutely amazing. And his life story is absolutely amazing and he's impacting pastors all over Mongolia, helping them to see that discipleship is not just Scripture memorization, it's becoming like Jesus and that means living sacrificially among those around you. And so you know, one of the benefits, luke, of being in this ministry for a long time is being in it long enough to see results. You know, sometimes, you know, in our evangelical background I come from, the attitude is quick. Yeah.
Bob Moffitt:You know how do you get people exposed to the gospel? Say the sinner's prayer, baptize them. You know how do you get people exposed to the gospel? Say the sinners for a baptism, and then we leave them for somebody else to feed them milk and change their diapers. Maybe, but it often never happens. Munkus, this young guy in Mongolia. His vision is long-term relationships where he's willing to let God set the timetable for transformation, and so that would be one story. There are many, many Luke, but that's one which throws my heart.
Luke Allen:Yeah, that's a great story. He truly is discipling his nation. In a way he's representing God's kingdom to those people everywhere he goes. I know some people get a little hung up on that. You know, bringing the kingdom or representing the kingdom, but I mean our vision statement here at the Disciple Nations Alliance working vision statement is to see blessed, thriving nations with key biblical principles and definitions deeply embedded in their foundations, shaping their institutions, policies and practices across every area of society. And I don't know how else to summarize that except to say we're trying to be ambassadors of God's kingdom to our nations and through that vision statement. So you know that's just a summary of what that means. Our mission statement here at the Disciple Nations Alliance, how we plan to do that is by equipping followers of Jesus with a biblical worldview, empowering them to build thriving cultures, communities and nations.
Luke Allen:Dad, that mission more or less hasn't changed since day one. And yet the people that we've spoken to, our audience you could say, has changed dramatically since the 90s, the late 90s, when this all started. Why do you think God has shifted that audience a little bit? I know a lot of people listening to this podcast are joining us from the United States. That's a very different group of people who are listening to us, not us. You guys back in the beginning. What do you think that shift is? Why do you think God's made that shift a little bit? I'm just curious.
Scott Allen:I think that a couple of things have happened in the 28 years since we did our first vision conference. I think the training that we've been sharing, and now many others I was just made aware here a few years ago that World Vision itself has made essentially this DNA type of training, this worldview type of training, one of its key strategic focuses. So this is now it's spreading all over the developing world and that's been so exciting. You know, the church is growing rapidly in a lot of places, like Brazil, for example just dramatic church growth and it's been so exciting. You know, the church is growing rapidly in a lot of places like Brazil, for example. It's just dramatic church growth and it's growing at a time and only God knows what's going to happen with this where people are really capturing this understanding of what it means to be the church and the mission of the church and this biblical worldview kind of way of thinking at the same time. So there's a lot of exciting things happening.
Scott Allen:However, in the West United States, canada, europe the Church not only has been struggling but this kind of secular, deeply secular worldview that's become dominant in Western nations has kind of morphed in all sorts of very dangerous ways now, and I think we're especially seeing that we saw that kind of in some ways come to a peak in the United States over the last 10 years with this kind of cultural Marxism, this woke stuff with. You know, all of a sudden you were seeing things like just a dramatic loss of freedom and censorship and tribalism and just all sorts of kind of really dangerous cultural directions, the destruction of marriage, the rise of kind of the sexual revolution that was being exported all over the world through government agencies in the United States and Europe. And so, you know, for those of us in the United States, you know we were being challenged. I was being challenged by people in places like Colombia and other countries around the world saying what are you doing? In your own country, the church needs to really be challenging these very destructive and dangerous ideas that are dominating your culture. What are you doing?
Scott Allen:That's something that I personally have taken to heart, and you know it's been a challenge for us because, on one hand, we've always, kind of as a principle, have said we want to go where there's great receptivity to this teaching, a real hunger for it. You know we don't have to try to market it right, and that's been the developing world. You know, the church in the developing world has been very receptive, very hungry. The church in the West much less so. So it's not so much being driven by a real hunger, although I do think that's changing actually right now. I think this is the exciting moment that we're in, like right now. There's a much greater openness now because of the destruction of this kind of this secular worldview that's playing itself out.
Scott Allen:So, yeah, we just want to be working with other people and partners and groups to do what we can, you know, all over the world, with churches all over the world, to try to encourage them to understand the power, the beauty of a biblical worldview applied and lived out in a way that leads to positive change and hope. You know hope, people in the West need hope. You know there's just such hopelessness and despair and the church is the answer here too. But it's got to tell that whole story. It can't just say come to church, get saved. It's got to tell the whole story because the stories of the nations have to be changed. They are destroying the nations and this false story of the West has to be changed. By God's grace it will be.
Luke Allen:Yeah, I was listening to a Christian leader he's based out of California last week just giving some of the stats on the amount of people looking at the brokenness in our society and our culture in the West right now and looking for hope somewhere else. A lot of people right now are coming to Jesus.
Dwight Vogt:It's amazing.
Luke Allen:A lot of people are saying it's a revival. I'm a little tentative to say that, but it seems like it. I just saw last week Bible sales are up for the first time in the last five, ten years, Just things like that these statistics coming out, we'll look back in ten years and see if it was a true revival based on the fruit of it.
Scott Allen:But something's clearly happening right now.
Luke Allen:There's no question revival based on the fruit of it, but something's clearly happening right now. There's no question. Yeah, and his call was okay. We have a lot of young believers in the West. All of a sudden, Lots of people are coming to Jesus. Who's going to disciple them? That was his question. Yes, who's going to disciple these people?
Scott Allen:It's not done here, you know revival needs to lead to reformation.
Scott Allen:Yeah, that discipleship we have to change. It can't just be discipleship in the way that we've typically thought about it in evangelical circles, of just here's how to read the Bible and witness to your friends and attend church on Sunday. It has to be a discipleship that tells the entire story and that expands the good news that we have to tell to the nations beyond just the simple message of the gospel, as good as that is, don't misunderstand me. There's a whole lot of good news that we have to tell our whole story. So yeah, the conversion is just the beginning.
Bob Moffitt:Absolutely right, it's not the end.
Scott Allen:That message alone, bob, is so critical, you know, because the church has misunderstood that it's seen's not the end. That message alone, bob, is so critical Because the church has misunderstood that, it's seen it as the end. That's the end, job done, and we have to come back and say, no, that's the beginning of the job. The job goes beyond that.
Scott Allen:Yeah, that's the fundamental prerequisite for seeing positive change. People have to be changed inwardly, but then they have to have their minds renewed and they have to live it out in very practical ways, you know. So it can't just be job is getting them saved and into the pew, no, so we've got to change the way we see our mission.
Luke Allen:Yep, yeah, if you guys go to our website, we have our a page called our strategy at the DNA, and step one it's we. We broke it down to set seven rough steps, you know, of how to disciple a nation. Step one is spiritual, spiritual regeneration. You have to start there. Without the Holy Spirit, none of this is possible, of this is possible. But then step two is you have to transform your worldview.
Luke Allen:Like we've talked about a bunch today is, if you're coming from a, you know, a postmodernist mindset and you've been educated in that you know the last 18 years of your life and that is the way you see the world, and then you become a Christian. You don't automatically get a biblical worldview. You have to change your mind, you know, be renewed in your mind. So step two is worldview.
Luke Allen:The next step is your character and, as we all know, that's a difficult step as you walk out the steps of sanctification after becoming a Christian and then it goes, and then that, of course, if your character changes, people around you are going to notice that.
Luke Allen:So that's going to bleed out into your closest, your family and your friends and your community, and then from there, if your heart's changed, your life's changed and it's changing the lives and hearts of your family and your community, then of course that is going to bleed out into different spheres of society and whether that's your workplaces or the civics of your community the little bit of a larger scale. And then, as that changes we've seen this happen before in history as the cities change and as the communities and the regions change, because people are actually living out a biblical worldview, the way that God has given us, the structure that God has given us to live in, that of course is going to affect a nation. We've seen this throughout church history. So that's the basic kind of seven steps of how this works. It's just being obedient. It's these ideas that are lived out and then have consequences on our lives, families, communities and nations.
Scott Allen:And it's never perfect. It's never complete. It's not going to be complete until Jesus returns. But it doesn't mean you can't make real progress, right now Yep.
Luke Allen:Yeah, that again, we don't know when Jesus is going to come back. Jesus doesn't know when he's going to come back, but, as of now, we've been given our marching orders Go and make disciples of all nations, baptize them, you know. So we'll do that until the day he comes back, or the end of our lives. So that's all we have to worry about is just be fruitful. You know the first of our lives. So, uh, that's all we have to worry about is, uh, just be fruitful. You know the first command of Genesis.
Luke Allen:Um, bob, you've been, uh, you've been, uh, being obedient for many years now. Um, some would say you might be entering your fourth quarter of your life, um, maybe third quarter still, but, uh, you know, you've been able to do a lot in your life. Um, as you, as you look towards the future I mean, you're still so on mission, which I always find just so encouraging and inspiring. You're 80-something now, I believe, and yet you're passionate. You're on fire, clearly, for this. Tell us a little bit of why.
Luke Allen:I mean, most people your age are not doing what you're doing. Let's be honest. I'm just curious why is that? You know, tell us about this passion that's led you this far, and then tell us about where you hope to see this mission go in the next few years, as it seems like there's a changing of the guard from you and Darrow and Vishal and these original guys. What do you see the future possibly looking like? Obviously, you know, man can plan his steps or plan his ways, but Lord's going to lead his steps. So we don't know the future, but we can take guesses. So I'm just curious to hear some of your thoughts.
Luke Allen:Those are two questions, first one yeah, two questions, two big questions, and we'll wrap it up from there, guys.
Bob Moffitt:Okay, I'm in love with Jesus. I want to be like him more than anything else. That's my passion. That's the goal of discipleship. It's not content. It includes content, but it's not the goal.
Bob Moffitt:Discipleship, for me, has one goal and that is helping the person who is a disciple to become more and more like Jesus, and that's a lifetime process. None of us are perfect. Even Paul at the end of his life, in the end of Acts, said no, it wasn't in Acts, I forget where it was. He said I have not yet arrived. This is the Apostle Paul At the end of his life. He didn't feel he'd arrived because he was becoming Lord. So that's what drives me, and as long as God gives me the, gives me wisdom and strength, I don't understand the word retirement. I don't understand that word. I never saw in the scripture. You know people, yes, passing on responsibility definitely, but thinking you could just kind of sit and enjoy, you know what you have. I don't see that anywhere in Scripture. And so for me it's not a matter of what quarter of life I'm in, it's has God given me the strength to continue? I need the wisdom to know what that means. But whether there's no stopping point.
Bob Moffitt:There's no sitting back in a chair or a lazy boy. It's a matter of doing the most you can with what God has given you, until he takes you home. Yep.
Bob Moffitt:The other question is I hope that DNA continues to flourish as an organization, but in my view it doesn't have to, Because I feel what God has done through DNA will continue whether DNA continues or not. Because DNA, if it's done right, is implanted as a seed into the heart of those who've taken advantage of our teaching and perspective, and that's what DNA is about. It shapes the life of the organism that has that DNA. So if people catch this DNA, it's a part of who they are. They don't need the organization to continue, but as long as the organization is around to continue. But as long as the organization is around, we can continue to share and infect you know the people who take our message and live it out.
Luke Allen:I hope that answers your question. Yeah, it does. Yeah, that's helpful. Uh, it's fun to occasionally meet those people whose gods planted the seed in their heart, and once you have this paradigm shift that we often talk about, there's no going back you know, you're gonna see the world differently and you're gonna see every single area of your life differently, and a lot of people from there it's like great, thank you guys.
Luke Allen:Adios, I'm gonna go do something about this. And we never hear back from them until maybe 15 years later. Occasionally, some of them, you know, reconnect. Hey, you know, I just wanted to let you know that. You know, that was really impactful on my life 15 years ago. It's completely changed the way I see my life and you know I've done this and this and this since then and we're like, oh, wow, that's amazing. And of course, we don't really need to hear that, because it's all God's work and he can do whatever he wants with it.
Luke Allen:But it is fun occasionally to reconnect with those people and just hear what he's doing in their lives. It's fun to hear those stories and you've heard a lot of those and you've been able to share a couple with us today, which was encouraging and fun. This whole discussion was a lot of fun for me. I learned a bunch. I hope this was helpful for our audience. I have so many more questions I was hoping to get to, especially for you, dad, and Dwight as well, but I think we'll have to save those for another day. We are at an hour and 15 minutes already, so I hope this was helpful for everyone. Any last-minute thoughts? Dwight, looked like you had a thought there.
Dwight Vogt:I. I hope this was helpful for everyone. Any last-minute thoughts? Dwight looked like you had a thought there. I'd like to thank Bob just for speaking into my life. I was just reflecting on your serving and loving. That's the end of discipleship. That's the goal of discipleship. I remember when you shared that in a meeting in Ethiopia and I walked away and went.
Bob Moffitt:It's that simple keep it simple, stupid.
Luke Allen:I love that, dad. Any last thoughts from you? Yeah same.
Scott Allen:Bob, I just want to really appreciate you. The DNA wouldn't God wouldn't have raised up the DNA apart from you, and I just so appreciate and treasure your heart and you've been such a good example and a role model to me and just a shaper of my own faith. So I just want to thank you so much for all you've done and all that God has done through you and continues to do.
Luke Allen:Yeah, yeah, it's been fun to be a part of Excuse me, I've grown up around the DNA, so this has been part of my story. Mr Moffat, you've been a part of my life since day one pretty much, so it's been super helpful being just naturally discipled in this my whole life and, uh, wow, talk about impact. Um, just my mindset on life, my worldview, the amount of things that you guys have taught me and God's taught through you guys to me is, uh, amazing. So I thank you guys, but I ultimately thank God for the, the way that um, he's been, he's been teaching me and training me in these things, and I hope to be able to apply them, like you guys have, and get out of my comfort zone and actually do something with what I know and not just let it, you know, puff up in my mind.
Luke Allen:If any of you guys listening today are curious to learn a little bit more about this core training that has really made the Disciple Nations Alliance the Disciple Nations Alliance, this message that God's put on our hearts and minds, step one, if you would like to become a part of this story as well, is to just go to our website, where our core resources are housed. It's called DiscipleNationsorg. That's our website. From there you can easily find this other website, but CoramDeocom is where we keep all of our courses.
Luke Allen:Our two kind of basics courses that we were talking about today are called Kingdomizer 101, kingdomizer 102. Those are led by Darrell Miller, my dad, scott Allen and Bob Moffitt, and those are pretty much the same courses, more or less, that these guys have been teaching uh since day one. Uh. So if you're curious to learn a little bit more about what we're talking about today and just uh, if you'd like to see if uh, um, God has something to teach you through those, then I would recommend going over to quorumdeocom and signing up today. All of our courses are free and uh just highly encourage you guys to go check those out. Um, as far as uh this episode goes, thank you, uh, bob for joining us today.
Scott Allen:If I could just add, you know, while we're talking about resources, yeah, bob is still the president of harvest foundation, which yeah, right, yeah so, yeah, I just you don't want to shoot people over to the harvest foundationorg. Is that correct, bob? Correct, yeah, because there's just a number of resources that you can avail yourselves of there as well, great resources.
Luke Allen:Yeah, absolutely. I will have all of that linked in the episode page which you can find in the description. Bob Dad Dwight. Thank you so much for your time today. Really enjoyed the discussion.
Bob Moffitt:You're welcome, bye-bye. Yeah, and for all of you guys listening, thank you so much for your time today. Really enjoyed the discussion. You're welcome, bye-bye.
Luke Allen:Yeah, and for all of you guys listening, thank you for your time. As always, listening to another episode of Ideas have Consequences. The podcast of the Disciple Nations Alliance.
