Ideas Have Consequences
Everything that we see around us is the product of ideas, of ideologies, of worldviews. That's where everything starts. Worldviews are not all the same, and the differences matter a lot. How do you judge a tree? By its fruits. How do you judge a worldview? By its physical, tangible, observable fruit. The things it produces. Ideas that are noble and true produce beauty, abundance, and human flourishing. Poisonous ideas produce ugliness. They destroy and dehumanize. It really is that simple. Welcome to Ideas Have Consequences, the podcast of Disciple Nations Alliance, where we prepare followers of Christ to better understand the true ideas that lead to human flourishing while fighting against poisonous ideas that destroy nations. Join us, and prepare your minds for action!
Ideas Have Consequences
The Implications of the Gospel in Your Vocation & Work with Nelson & Lisa Monteiro
Why has God placed you in your particular vocation? For many Christians, this essential question can be challenging to answer. In this episode, we explore a new 10-week study guide developed by Disciple Nations Alliance, aimed at helping Christians view their work as an act of worship and a vital part of God’s divine purpose.
Join the creators of this insightful resource as they unpack the concepts of work, blending foundational teachings with fresh perspectives. Whether you’re in a 9-to-5 job, decorating your home, or mowing the lawn, this study will inspire you to rethink your approach to everyday tasks.
Discover how to embrace a biblical perspective that turns routine activities into meaningful expressions of praise and service. Tune in to be encouraged and equipped to elevate your work as a form of worship that honors God and impacts the world around you.
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- Disciple Nations Alliance Website
In a biblical worldview, the concept of work is not career, it's not job. It's about occupation, vocation, profession. These are the words that should be coming out of Christians' mouths people who understand, or should understand, a biblical worldview, when they talk about work. It's my occupation, it's the place that I occupy for Jesus Christ upon his return. It's my vocation. I've heard the voice of God call me to my work, so the worldview creates a totally different context for what we do every day.
Luke Allen:Hi, friends, welcome to. Ideas have Consequences. The podcast of the Disciple Nations Alliance. Here on this show, we examine how our mission as Christians is to not only spread the gospel around the world, to all the nations, but our mission also includes to be the hands and feet of God, to transform the nations to increasingly reflect the truth, goodness and beauty of God's kingdom. Tragically, the church has largely neglected this second part of her mission and today most Christians have little influence on their surrounding cultures. Join us on this podcast as we rediscover what it means for each of us to disciple the nations and to create Christ-honoring cultures that reflect the character of the living God.
Luke Allen:Hey, everyone, thank you for joining us again today For this episode. I am joined by a great crew of people here on the call and, yeah, the hope of this episode is that we're hoping to help you gain a new or fuller understanding of the implications of the gospel in your vocation and work. So that's the topic on the table today. Today, behind the microphones, I am joined by Dwight Vogt, my co-host and boss. Dwight, how are you doing today? I'm good. Thank you, Luke. Great, Great to hear. And also the co-founder of the DNA, Darrell Miller. How are you doing, Mr Miller Doing?
Darrow Miller:great Good to be with you.
Luke Allen:Great to have you here and, yeah, for the purposes of today's topic, Darrell was really the inspiration behind this discussion, behind the study guide that we're going to be sharing with you guys today that just came out. Darrell was the author back in, I believe, 2009, of the book Life Work A Biblical Theology for what we Do Every Day, which, yeah, like I said, is part of the inspiration behind today's subject. And then also, we are joined by two special guests from BC Canada Nelson and Lisa Montero. How are you guys doing?
Lisa Monteiro:Fine Luke, Thanks for having us here.
Luke Allen:Good. Thank you, luke. Oh, yeah, it's great to have you guys back, yeah, and yeah, you guys have been on the show before, so any of our regular listeners will recognize the Monteros. Also, they have been really just part of the DNA global family for all. You guys are going way back now and you guys serve as the network development coordinators for our Portuguese-speaking region and, yeah, I have just done a lot of great work over the years with the team, so we are always thankful and grateful to have you on the show.
Luke Allen:And also, you guys recently helped us create this new study guide that we're going over today, with the help of another DNA family member, george Oliveira, and then, as well as, yeah, dwight and Darrow played a part in this, and the name of this study guide is the Gospel at Work the Implications of the Gospel in your Vocation and Work.
Luke Allen:And yeah, by the way, my name is Luke Allen. I'm going to be your host today, and I just realized that, out of the four families represented on the show today, three of the families have a son named Luke, so that's a fun fact. And also, my parents always claim that I was named after Luke in the Bible, as you would expect them to claim, but I was born probably what I'm two years younger than dwight's luke, who is named luke david vote and my name is luke david allen, so I am not convinced that they named me after the luke in the bible, but actually just copied dwight, so we just I wanted to steal something from scott, so yeah you did, or maybe he stole it from you, but yeah, that was.
Luke Allen:Yeah, maybe not the most creative name on their part, but hey, I like it. Good name. Shout out to all the Lukes out there. Anyways, to get us started today, nelson and Lisa, let's just open up by talking about why you guys decided to write this study guide, why you thought there was a need for this right now why you thought there was a need for this right now.
Nelson Monteiro:Well, thank you for noting also Georgie, who was part of this team, right, and, of course, the DNA team. That was a great final. The finale Dwight was very good to be able to edit and review that curriculum. But the first answer to that question is discipleship. I think we live in an age where, in many ways, we see a crisis in discipleship and then talk about broad discipleship right, because we can define discipleship in so many ways but the idea that we need discipleship, we need to define it and go for the broad aspect of what Jesus gave to us when he commanded to make disciples of all nations and young professionals. Discipleship of young professionals because millennials and younger, and we have been doing a lot of work with that generation.
Nelson Monteiro:I think it's a generation that has been really bombarded by ideas, secular ideas mainly. I remember I had a professor at the seminary Regent College Vancouver, james Houston. He was actually the founder of Regent College and he used to talk to us about the greater danger that we face as humans these days is not he-humane, inhumane acts, it's a-humanity that denies what full humanity is about. We are being robbed. We are being robbed. And this generation of millennials and younger professions are in this age. I think we have a heart for them. In many ways, they have been bombarded by ideas, they have been bombarded by a humanity, and so to be able to create a curriculum that connects your work to meaning, significance, purpose, significance purpose responsibility, it was a main point behind that.
Lisa Monteiro:I think that I echo what Nelson said, but I also have my personal experience and so the impetus for being involved stems both from my own journey into the work world, which goes back a number of decades, and also our experience with young people, young professionals in Brazil, into the looking for a job.
Lisa Monteiro:After university I noticed my friends desiring location as a reason to accept the job, money as a reason to accept the job, status or title position, upward mobility, all of those things. And I came to my dad at the age of 20, 21. And I asked him and he said you should choose your job. By the way, you can best contribute to society. And that resonated with me as well. I had witnessed him live that out in his life work. He was a scientist and working in the forest industry and I saw that what he did every day was having an impact on the management of forests, the good stewardship of forests, and so it really resonated. And I see that young people have the same questions really and they deserve a deeper and more meaningful answer to that question.
Dwight Vogt:Luke, I want to jump to Daryl at this point because, Daryl, you were the original resource behind the synthesis that Nelson and Lisa have done such a wonderful job of working with. What was your motivation for talking about work way back 100 years ago?
Darrow Miller:now it is almost 100 years ago, dwight and we've been together the whole time.
Dwight Vogt:Life work. You know what I'm talking about.
Darrow Miller:Yes, I do. Well, for years I worked with another non-profit called Food for the Hungry and realized that the root of hunger and poverty was not lack of resources, it was the lack of a biblical worldview. So my whole life has been related to worldview applied and the DNA was born out of the application of a biblical worldview towards nations that were poor and hungry. And how do you convey a biblical worldview If that's the key to the problem of hunger and poverty? How do you convey a biblical worldview If that's the key to the problem of hunger and poverty? How do you convey a biblical worldview? And the word applied is very important for the DNA. It's not just worldview. There's a whole lot of organizations that teach worldview but the thing that makes the DNA unique is that we are worldview applied.
Darrow Miller:And I noticed as I traveled around the world in developing countries, I saw a lot of people who'd come to Christ. I saw churches filled and I still saw poverty. And why were people still poor when they'd come to Christ? Didn't make sense. And then I connected that they didn't have a biblical worldview.
Darrow Miller:Most impoverished countries have an animistic worldview, not a biblical worldview, and in those countries work is seen as a curse, and if you see work as a curse, that is going to have economic consequences for you, for your family and for your community and nation, so you can have people come to Christ. You have churches planted and poverty not changed because there hasn't been the discipling at the level of culture and particularly the discipling at the level of work, and so that was one of the two reasons I wrote the book is to address the issue of work for people who are working among the poor and developing countries. They need to have a biblical concept of work. The other was back towards a Western audience, because a lot of Christians were Christians on Sunday but not on Mondays, were Christians on Sunday but not on Mondays, and they were Sunday.
Darrow Miller:Christians had no concept of a Monday being a Monday Christian. But they were very often struggling with how do I connect my work to the kingdom of God? And that was a question that was lacking. The answer was lacking, and so the second reason I wrote the book was to connect with Christians who are struggling with. How does the work that I have that I do connect to God's work in bringing the kingdom of God, to God's work in bringing the kingdom of God? So those are the two reasons that drove my research and the writing of this book.
Luke Allen:Hi friends, I'd like to take a quick minute to tell you a little bit more about the Gospel at Work study guide. This 10-week study book was developed to train young adults to see the work they do as an act of worship and central to the divine purposes of God. The developers have synthesized some of the best teachings on work produced by the Disciple Nations Alliance and added their own unique insights to create a rich collection of thoughts and applications. This study inspires you to think in new ways about the work you do, whether it's your nine to five vocation, decorating a home or even mowing a lawn. Again, the title is the Gospel at Work the implications of the gospel in your vocation and work. To get your copy of this study guide today, please tap the link in the show notes, which will take you to the episode page, where you can choose between grabbing an Amazon copy or a PDF version for our global audience. Thanks again, and now back to the episode.
Dwight Vogt:Thanks, Lisa Nelson, go ahead.
Nelson Monteiro:Part of the reason and that for me was so central there and I wrote that and we actually we told this and when we did the pilots with young professionals, I kept telling them this. A major reason for this curriculum is exactly what Daryl mentioned, that it should deal with this secular-sacred divide that we as Christians inside the church and as young professionals, we are exposed to that right, this idea of what Daryl calls the evangelical Gnosticism right that we divide our Sunday from our Monday to Friday or whatever else work is. But one of the main reasons was about that to deal with this secular-secular divide, to equip for full-time ministry really, which means it's not only full-time ministry when it is in the church on Sunday, it's full-time ministry when you go to work on Monday. That is a full-time ministry. And we would say that to the group in the Bible. We are reconnecting vocation, capital V with vocation, capital V with vocation, small v. So your small v vocation is about the advancement of God's kingdom.
Nelson Monteiro:The big V so that's the idea is reconnecting vocation, capital V with vocation, small v to deal with the secular-sacred divide. And it's about capital V with vocation, small v to deal with the secular-sacred divide. And it's about broad discipleship. Really, it's about discipling nations we work a lot with, like Daryl, we work a lot with community development, but this side of things and Dwight, we had a few conversations about that how to apply this to society, not only to community development and transformation, but to society development, society transformation, right, and, by the way, one last thing that I want to mention here. I want to mention Ana Lúcia. I want to honor her because when we came to Brazil to work in that Dairio Brazil, ana was there already doing some work with young people, young adults, and we joined her in that work and a lot of these also. We talk about Georgie. Ana Lúcia is a big part of this.
Darrow Miller:Let me just throw something in. You use the word vocation and that word vocation comes from the word voice and we need to make that connection, because God's voice, god, speaks. He spoke to Abraham and Abraham heard his voice and responded to the voice, and that led Abraham to what his life's work was. And vocation comes from the word voice. It comes from the word voice and when we say, well, I've been called, I have a sense of calling that I'm to be an artist or a farmer or a homemaker. But what does that have to do with the kingdom of God? Well, it has a lot to do with the kingdom of God, because the voice of God is the one who has called you to that vocation for a purpose. So just to mention that as part of what you'll learn in this study yeah that's helpful and we have reduced there.
Nelson Monteiro:We have reduced that as we say words, you change language, you change culture, as Scott would say. Very well, right, and Darrell. So we have reduced vocation to a small V, but there's a big V, vocation. So it's God's call, it's his voice calling, right? So, reconnecting this, how? We have two things to the real, what the vocation really means. The big V, right. So anyway, I would say that's to the group that we have in our pilot.
Luke Allen:Another thing you said, nelson, a minute ago, is that you're trying to train people up to see their work as their full-time ministry.
Luke Allen:And that word ministry recently for me has been a bit of a point of contention, because when I explain what I do to people, I say, oh, I work in Christian ministry. And yet, uh, you know, we all work in Christian ministry, right, every believer is working in Christian ministry. Because I mean even the word ministry, right? If you drive that word all the way back to its origins, its basic definition was, uh, service, just a working, works of service, um, which is all work, right. So everyone works in ministry in that sense. But then, as Christians, just having that lens, when we're looking at our work as a place of ministry, we are missionaries to the grocery store we work at or to the school we work at, or if we work in politics, we're missionaries into that field. So I don't know if I can exactly change that word, since it's already kind of stuck in place, but I want to encourage more people around me to see their work as ministry and that, yes, I work in Christian ministry, but maybe formal Christian ministry, but you do too.
Nelson Monteiro:I like that, luke, and even though I speak, portuguese is my original language. Right, latin is the base and the ministry word goes back to ministerium in Latin. Right, and actually those two words that are one, not in opposition to the other, but they go together and have to recognize one and the other magisterium and ministerium. Magisterium is the master, minister is the servant. So the idea that we are ministers right, we are there to serve. We have a prime minister in Canada. He's the great servant. He should be the great servant of the country. Sometimes we make this magisterium, we become the masters, right, but that's the idea that we are servants. That's ministerial, it's ministry. As we go to work, we're going to serve a higher purpose, right, the advancement of God's kingdom, ultimately.
Luke Allen:Well said, yeah, that makes even more sense.
Dwight Vogt:Yeah, yeah, do I? You look like you had a question. Yeah, well, I, I was just thinking about that. But word ministry and I think of how the us and other countries usually previously talked about ministry of agriculture or ministry of health. Now it's department of agriculture, department of health, but originally there was biblical language behind all of those and the idea that this was where you find services for this location. I have a question that if I'm looking at the book and I'm looking at the table of contents, yeah, you've talked about worldview and the importance of worldview, but I look at the book and the first four or five chapters, yeah, they're all about worldview and I'd like you to unpack that a little bit. You said that you did this to disciple young professionals who weren't discipled, meaning what? They didn't have a worldview. That was right. Or you brought a new worldview to them. Um, what? What's world? You have to do with work and vocation. Can you unpack that a little bit? Just just give some examples.
Nelson Monteiro:Yeah, the foundation really, and part of the curriculum. The study guide will touch on that whole concept that Terrell develops ideas of consequence. The roots generate the fruits, so the foundation we are. So it's so easy to look at the fruits and try to deal with the fruits and leave the roots untouched, which then is not going to resolve the problem. So the whole idea of a foundation, of I mean foundation and the root, right, I'm bringing to the mechanic. I'm leaving the organic example to go to the mechanic. I'm an engineer. The whole idea of foundation for me is coming from an engineering background. I mean, lisa has tried to make me a farmer there. The organic excerpts, but I keep going to this mechanic excerpt.
Nelson Monteiro:So foundation, the whole idea of foundation. If you're going to build anything you have to have a strong foundation. If your foundation is faulty, you're going to see at some point it's going to break, something's going to break at some point. So the whole idea of worldview is the foundation for this, because how we see, how the lenses that we use to look at the world, and this worldview that we receive as we grow up in the culture, that makes us see everything and organize our world according to what we see. So the idea of foundation, the worldview, is foundational ideas of consequences.
Nelson Monteiro:If you're going to develop your work to be about the advancement of the kingdom of God, then you better check your foundations and see that from design, from creation our biblical review talks about creation, fall, redemption and consummation.
Nelson Monteiro:From creation, god designed us to work with him for the advancement of his skin so that his glory would fill the whole earth through us as creating his image, the magode, the representative aspect of the image of God in us, that takes us to work, that sends us, that puts us here as his representative, as Daryl says so well, and Vishal says that, to spread the garden over all the earth, to be kingdom agents, to spread kingdom beauty, goodness, truth, and they all go together as we go and create cultures. This is the foundation, this biblical worldview, this is the truth, really truth, right in an age very of a very relast, the relativistic worldview. We speak about truth as the foundation for building societies and the work, where you're going to spend a lot of the hours as you are alive, that becomes major for spreading and worldview. Those biblical ideas are the foundation for how to do that through work. Those biblical ideas are the foundation for how to do that through work.
Lisa Monteiro:Go ahead, liz. At the deepest level, our worldview determines our work view, and that's a very deep and broad encompassing statement. The curriculum Daryl's work explores that.
Dwight Vogt:Can you give some examples of people who you've seen shift in their worldview because of going through the content.
Lisa Monteiro:Well, we've had the privilege, as Nelson said, of working with a movement, which is the DNA, that involves a lot of people, and so we've had the privilege, really the honor, of coming after people who have paved the way Daryl, of course, and the DNA team, anna Lucia, who Nelson mentioned, who's a dear friend and got us involved, connected us with Daryl way back, and it was that team, those exposures and experience influencing a group of young people in Brazil, that really had a great impact on us.
Lisa Monteiro:We are now, 15 years later, down the road, seeing the fruit in the lives of those first students that Anna worked with and we had the privilege of working with as well, to see the fruit of their lives and their vocations, and it's been amazing. So that group in Brazil George was one of them, george and his wife Rebecca, samuel and Carol, his wife Amanda, as well George's sister, renan, chris there are many people and so we can see their work and Nelson can tell you some of the examples, we can see the impact of their work at this point, fifteen years later, when we first met them, they were 20. So it's amazing. We have a homeschool movement that started in João Pessoa. Rebecca and Carol and Amanda are key in that they're discipling their own kids and others. George and what he's doing. He's, you know, reached high levels of influence in this area, and then yeah, I feel like I can think about a few examples.
Nelson Monteiro:One of them always comes to my mind. He's now a federal prosecutor. When he started, when Anna and I started to disciple him, he was just graduating from law school. So anyway, he is now a federal prosecutor and he was assigned to go to the interior of that state of Paraíba and when he got there he saw the fruits of the fall, and one of the big ones is corruption right All these federal funds that are coming to this municipality in the interior, in the rural area, that will get into the pockets of different people and never really be used for what they were sent there for. And one of the main problems was accountability and in that problem, how to actually assist them that they could use to account for the money. So Henan saw that and he said I can be a kingdom agent here through my work as a federal prosecutor. So he called a meeting with the academia, the university, local university. He called a meeting with the politicians. He was there as the representative of the justice system and he called them to create a system together that could actually report, could make reporting easier and much more transparent, and that anyway, they created, they started and he won Brazil.
Nelson Monteiro:Every the Ministry of Justice in Brazil every year gives a prize, gives a prize. It's a national prize for someone, a federal prosecutor, who has done a great job to tackle an issue and found a solution. He won the prize that year In Brazil. He went to the president. The president delivered him that medal because he developed this system with the university, with the local politicians. He represented the justice system to tackle corruption. That was a simple step. Well, simple, for we can say simple from here. For him was a lot of work to deal with corruption and report and make sure that those funds were going to the community and to what was supposed to go.
Luke Allen:That's a great example Wow.
Lisa Monteiro:There are so many examples. It's very exciting. There are people at different stages in the journey. There are some that are just starting. Here in Canada, we've had discipleship groups, some that are just launching and making decisions about how they launch based on this understanding that the Christian worldview determines their work view and they move forward from there. One example that I like to bring up as well, because it is our daughter, gabi. She's an architect and, like Chris in Brazil, who's also an architect, they understand architecture from clear biblical foundation. They see architecture as the way to bring in Gebe's words beauty, order and justice into a city. So the city serves the people living there, it brings glory to God, it points to God, and so those are beautiful examples as well. There are many others I'd like to mention, but we don't have that time yeah, two of them went to the back of the book.
Lisa Monteiro:Actually, jimmy and Alon went there, and those are two people who were impacted too, but so, anyway, there's other names that I can't think here of testimonies yeah, there's Isaac, who's a teacher, who is now working in Kazakhstan, and he said to us at the end not only did the material impact his view of his work as a teacher, but it also gave him, a Christian, a biblical foundation for why he recycles every day and has to go outside and separate his recycling. That God calls us to creation, care to steward the earth, and so the reach is very broad and very deep.
Dwight Vogt:Well, it's interesting. I know you guys have a chapter on. You're just talking about the dominion mandate, basically God's plan for human development, and I know in my own life, you know, it's like everything now gets viewed through that prism of dominion mandate. It's like I'm fixing, you know, a light bulb and it becomes the dominion mandate. I'm fulfilling God's purposes for my life right there. And so, you know, so much of work is just doing stuff that makes something a little bit better and all at once it's in a sacred realm because it's right there in the first chapter of the Bible, in the first command that was ever given to us, to every human being ever made, ever will live. You know, and it's just, it gives me chills.
Nelson Monteiro:And I love that too, dwight. Actually, again back to my engineering background, I like processes. Right, there is a process. You come from one point and see the land and then having a building at the end building that land. There's a whole process that goes. And I remember that graphic that Thoreau has, the book Discipling Nations, that talks about the ethical development, the principles of ethical development and how he puts that graphic there that actually we end up not putting in the book, but it was very clear to me progress, development from the garden to the city garden, development from the garden to the city garden.
Nelson Monteiro:Our work is part of God's work to tell us the purpose of bringing from the garden what he did at creation and he called us to do with him to the city garden, the end of New Jerusalem. So there's a whole process happening here. Right, we do our work, working with God, we work because he works, we are part of this process, this continuum that goes from the garden to the garden city. And so our work becomes so important that, as Christian Overman I think it's Christian Overman who said that we don't draw meaning from our work Christian Overman has said that we don't draw meaning from our work, we bring meaning to our work because God gave us that meaning already, back to the ethical development and what he gave us in creation designed us to do the image of God as his representative, the structural aspect of the image.
Nelson Monteiro:So there is this continual going on, there is a process going on, and then sometimes we're disconnected. We live in this very fragmented age where we don't connect ideas and we don't connect what's going on. We become this piece. This clog is the word right Cog, cog, Cogs, sometimes a clog too. But with this clog in this machine we do connect. So there's a whole picture going on right, that from design, from creation God gave to us and that work is such an important part of that process.
Darrow Miller:Let me jump in and connect what you've just said back to what you were talking about a few minutes ago, with worldview being the context for your work. And the worldview of the West is a materialistic worldview. And when you think of work you think of a job or a career. And the main purpose of work in a career is to climb the career ladder. And as you climb the career ladder you make more money, you can have more things and at the end of a certain period of time you can retire. That's the mentality in the Western world of work.
Darrow Miller:Work is defined within the context of a materialistic worldview. In an animistic worldview, work is defined in that context of animism and the gods are angry, the world is capricious and work is a curse. And that's how people understand work within the context of an animistic worldview. In a biblical worldview, it's about the kingdom of God, beginning in a garden and ending in a city. That's the huge concept context of the biblical worldview.
Darrow Miller:The concept of work is not career, it's not job. It's about occupation, vocation, profession. These are the words that should be coming out of Christians' mouths, people who understand, or should understand a biblical worldview, when they talk about work. It's my occupation. It's the place that I occupy for Jesus Christ upon his return. For Jesus Christ. Upon his return, it's my vocation. I've heard the voice of God call me to my work. So the worldview creates a totally different context for what we do every day and most of us who are Christians are Christians in our hearts, but we're materialists in our heads and the materialistic framework defines how we see work and it's about money and retirement and climbing a career ladder and buying things. So worldview is absolutely important if you want to have a significant talk about work, and the language we use is very important. If we are biblically minded, let's use biblical language when we're talking about our work.
Dwight Vogt:I was reminded recently, daryl, you used the word occupy and somebody was talking about work-life balance. But really they were talking about work-work-work balance because she was working as a mother, she was working as a wife, she was working as a friend and she was working as an interior designer or something like that. Yeah, but she made the point which is what you're just making. She said, basically you have to be present in each one of those realms, and so she occupied in one work and then she would move into the next work and occupy there.
Dwight Vogt:That's right it wasn't like oh, this is my important work and this is my unimportant work. No, I'm occupying in every single one of these spheres of work. That's right. So our whole life is basically one of service. So we're working 24-7, unless we take a nap and we should, because God said rest and we get to eat. So that's probably not work, except our stomachs have to work. But anyway, that's so important that we occupy in our lives and work isn't just one thing like our vocation. Yeah.
Nelson Monteiro:And Dwight, it was probably you who wrote that I, I, I, I loved the description, the book overview. I went to Amazon to look for the book when you sent the link, actually, and there's a book overview there that I hadn't seen yet on Amazon. And two things one you, just one you. You just said there the overview says they start inspires you to think in a new way, in new ways, about the work you do, whether it is your A to 5 vocation, decorating your home or even mowing the lawn. So that's the idea that work. We are working right, we are working with God all the time to create, to establish order, to bring order, to create means and systems to make life better. And the other thing that I like in the book overview also is this idea that it says that this study book was developed to train young adults to see the work they do as an act of worship and central to the divine purposes of God. I love that. I love that Right at the beginning of the book overview.
Luke Allen:Yeah, I mean for young people. I know for myself, this was definitely a phase I went through. But sometimes, when you're in high school and you all of a sudden realize you're forced with what feels like half the big decisions in your life in the next five years and you you feel like you have to get them all just right, or you know you're going to point your entire life in the wrong direction. And where do I go to college? What do I do for a career? Who am I going to marry? You know, for a lot of people that all happens in your 20s and or teens and 20s, and for a lot of Christians it's like what I know works, important, OK, but what is God calling me to? What is the vocation that his voice is calling me towards? And we can overthink it so easily and I need to figure out that exact thing. What is God's specific will for me? And I need to know it now. What is God's specific will for me and I need to know it now?
Luke Allen:And yet, a lot of times, just having that mindset of occupying or you know, we've used a lot of terms for it or having a ministry mindset towards whatever you're doing, you can turn anything into an act of service towards God. And just seeing your, you know, maybe it's just that first job, Maybe you're a butcher or something like that Go and go and take that mentality, that work, view that first job. Maybe you're a butcher or something like that. Go and take that mentality, that work, view that worldview into that line of work and God will work powerfully through you in that space and then maybe he'll call you to something else. But we can learn. Just having that mindset in any work can really just hone our understanding of who God's creating us to be and use us. So it's not exactly like you have to get it just right on that first job, but just taking this worldview into that job that you can do and you can apply that anywhere. Um.
Dwight Vogt:Dwight. Um, I'd like to circle around to, uh, the title of the book, nelson. Um, you say the gospel at work and use the word gospel and that's an interesting word, gospel, because it's defined lots of different ways. And you also, throughout the book, you reference the kingdom, you use kingdom language and I'm wondering, you know, can you put that together for us? We usually think the gospel of salvation. How does that possibly apply to work? And then you use a lot of kingdom language. Could you just summarize, you and Lisa summarize your thoughts on that?
Nelson Monteiro:There's a process there too, dwight, of course. Yeah, first of all, what's familiar to us, the language that is familiar to us, the gospel. Right, there's no discussion about the importance of the gospel. The gospel is the power of God. Paul says for the salvation of all those who believe. Leave. So we.
Nelson Monteiro:I grew up. I grew up in a Christian home, in a church that was very much about in the church. Actually, there was a fruit of missions from North America, us, canada. That's how I came to. I was led to Christ and the gospel. We had the high view of the gospel. We need to share the gospel. There's no salvation outside of the message of the gospel. And we preached it, we went and shared, we led people to Jesus and then, as life went and God takes us on our journeys, that was good, but there was something better yet.
Nelson Monteiro:It's the idea that the redemption and we talk about the backdoor, biblical view, creation fall. What God designed. We, because of our own choices, because of what we call sin, we departed from God's design and brokenness brokenness of individuals, brokenness of societies, sin in individuals, systemic sin, iniquity, broken societies and redemption that reverses the fall. And the gospel very much speaks to the brokenness of individuals as I grew up learning. But there's something more, there's something else, there's something broader, and that's the whole idea that we are called back and reconciled with God through Christ and His work on the cross, to continue to work with him in what he designed from the beginning. What he designed in the beginning is not destroyed because of the fall, otherwise right. Well, anyway, it's not destroyed by the fall, so redemption goes back to that. So the whole conversation that Daryl actually has about that not being only Genesis 3 Christians, but being Genesis 1 Christians, so we don't only say, as I have mentioned that story so many times.
Nelson Monteiro:I may have mentioned in a podcast before here, but I grew up in a church and every Saturday evening we would take the youth group and we would go to a public square to share the gospel. And one time, one of the days, we went this friend of ours, we prayed, we went to share. He came back and he said Nelson, I was thinking about. I saw this person sitting by the sidewalk, I was thinking about something to say to start a conversation and I said to him Jesus is the answer. And he asked me and what is the question? And he said to me and he caught me, drew a blank. I couldn't answer that. So the answer is Genesis 1.
Nelson Monteiro:The question is Genesis 1, right, we are created to work with God in his creation, his word, even though it's broken. We are agents of reconciliation. So the gospel of the kingdom right, not only the gospel that so many times we create these reductions and we lose because of that the gospel is so powerful that he changed the life of the individual, but he also changed and caused this individual to salvation, but also to work with God in the advancement of his kingdom, as he, god, intended from the beginning, from creation. So now we're back to working with God. So that's work, back to work, right, we're working with God again for the advancement of the kingdom in our societies, in our communities, bringing God's truth, the pillars of the kingdom. We say truth, goodness and beauty of God. So we are called back.
Nelson Monteiro:So the whole idea of connecting the kingdom of God and work, and, to use the word gospel, it has to do with this good news, right, it's good news for an individual, gospel, good news, it's good news for an individual. And also it's good news for community and society where these transformed individuals are, because now we transformed by God and being this God coming and dwelling in us through the Holy Spirit we become. We come back to this dance with God, this partnership with God, by His grace right, because he didn't need to do that to work with Him, and our work becomes part of that. Our work is part of spreading the kingdom of God. That's good news, that's gospel.
Dwight Vogt:Darrell.
Darrow Miller:Yeah, there was something you said a minute ago that took me on a little track Genesis, and in Genesis 1, 26 through 28,. We're made in the image of God, male and female, to do what, to have dominion over what God has made. We're not just put in the garden to eat from the garden, we're to govern over the garden. We're to govern or we're to expand the garden. We're to create art, we're to create dance, we're to create music, we're to create things.
Darrow Miller:We are, in a word, economic man, and that's the word I bring into the discussion when you talk about Genesis and the creation mandate. We are created to be economic men and women and, interesting enough, the Greek word for economics comes from two Greek words oikos, which is house, and nomia, which is stewardship. So we think of the word economics, as you know, business. Well, it is that, but it literally means to be a steward of the house. So in Genesis 1, we are placed in the garden to be the stewards of the garden. At the end of the Bible and the book of Revelation, we are now in a garden city. We're to be stewards, to take care of what God has given us, but to do something with it. We're to not leave it as it is, but to make it prosper, flourish, be productive, and that's the work of economic man Oconomia, stewarding God's house and I just wanted when you were talking about Genesis and that commission there.
Darrow Miller:That's what I wanted to come back and talk about. Yeah, this is. We are economic human beings. We are made to be inventive, to be creative, to be entrepreneurs, to do something with what God has given us to steward, and that's work.
Luke Allen:I love that. Yeah that's so helpful. Nelson and Lisa, before we wrap up, if you guys could give a quick summary to our listeners of this conversation, as best as you can, of why people should go and pick up this study guide. Give us a quick elevator pitch for it.
Lisa Monteiro:Well, all of life is under the Lordship of Christ, including the work we do, so I would say that's my elevator there we go and we have a God.
Lisa Monteiro:The results are with God. He's the author, but we have our response ability. As Nelson has said many times, responsibility can be broken up of life, and it reminds us that to come to the end, knowing why you did what you did, is immensely important and gratifying. And so you start early with asking those questions and understanding. You live a fulfilled life, and if you understand that God's intention for a fulfilled life ultimately is a life that brings glory to Him, it is a life worth living.
Nelson Monteiro:Yeah, and I would say I mean they should use this curriculum because it is so refreshing. So refreshing for the church to understand that this, that to go broad for maximum impact in society. God called us, the church, to work with them to do that. This curriculum will show how maximum impact can be done and also the truth of the Bible back to the roots, where it should be. Like Lisa said, jesus is the Lord of all. The truth of God backs the fabric of our society, informing what work should be and what it should be about the advancement of God's kingdom. So this curriculum should be used for more of the kingdom to come and to continue to come, as we wait for the king himself to come and bring it in its fullness stuff and do a little bit of editing probably too much for your taste at times, but that you guys pulled together a lot of important biblical ideas.
Dwight Vogt:I mean I think of the biblical narrative, I think of the word gospel, I think of the word kingdom, I think of worldview, and you wove those together throughout your thinking in a way that made sense to me and I think will make sense to the people who go through this study guide. So I applaud you for that and I hope people buy it for that reason.
Nelson Monteiro:Yeah, you made it look good.
Dwight Vogt:I got a good cover on it, that's all, thank you.
Luke Allen:No, I'm going to go get it. I haven't read read it yet, so I'm excited to read it. By the way, again, the title of this study guide is the gospel at work the implications of the gospel in your vocation and work dwight. Where can people find this?
Dwight Vogt:they can find it on amazon just by doing a search for that. Uh, we've also got a website where you can download, because not everybody can access Amazon, and you can download a copy, pdf, for any country of the world, and we can also make bulk orders if you need that, and it's available in color interior and also black and white interior, lots of graphics, as Nelson alluded to, and it's quite beautiful and it's 10 weeks.
Luke Allen:You can work your way through it, and I'm guessing this can be done as an individual study or you can do it with a group church group yeah, great, okay, there you heard it. Folks, the gospel at work, nelson, go for it.
Nelson Monteiro:Can I go back and just honor Daryl and Bob? Really right, because what you started with life work, daryl has found so many expressions in so many parts of the world. That's just one.
Luke Allen:Yeah, I can attest to that too, Mr Miller. You've taught me so much about the importance of my work in, you know, not just seeing parts of my life as being valuable for God and his kingdom, but every single area of my life, including what I spend usually eight to 10 hours on a day, so I'm so glad I can have that perspective.
Darrow Miller:Good, it's God.
Luke Allen:Yep. Thank you everyone for listening uh to today's discussion. I hope this was helpful for you. I hope that um you're able to uh get the copy of the gospel at work and go through that yourself or in a group. Nelson and Lisa, thank you for your time today and for joining us.
Darrow Miller:Thank you. Yeah, it's always good to have you guys. Thank you for putting the book together.
Luke Allen:Amen, yeah, thanks for your initiative on that. And yeah, thanks for your initiative on that. And, george, if you're listening, thank you also for being a part of this. Exactly, and yeah, to everyone who's listening, this is the podcast of the Disciple Nations Alliance. Ideas have consequences and we hope you can join us here again for another episode. Thanks again for listening, thank you.
