Want More Enjoyment?

Do you want to experience enjoyment in this life? One of the keys is hidden in the first command given to us in Scripture in Genesis 1:28, “God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it.” Did you know fructus in Latin means both “fruit” and “enjoyment”? Tell us if we’re wrong, but it sounds like the key to enjoyment is found in obedience to this command: “be fruitful.” In fact, this theme of fruitfulness and productive activity runs throughout the entirety of the Bible. Fruitfulness is doing the good and producing benefit for the well-being of others while simultaneously giving us deep joy and fulfillment. To hear more, join Scott Allen, Dwight Vogt, and Luke Allen as they discuss this fascinating Latin revelation further. 

• View the transcript, leave comments, and check out recommended resources on the Episode Landing Page!

Chapters

• 14:56 The Connection Between Fruitfulness and Joy
• 27:09 Connection Between Love, Joy, and Fruitfulness
• 36:02 Fruitfulness, Joy, and Fulfillment
• 42:16 Fruitfulness, Joy, and Societal Change
• 52:10 The Christian Revolution of Love
• 59:20 The Power of Fruitful Work

Transcript

Scott Allen: 0:03

that God wants us to be filled with joy and he wants our lives to be blessed, and there's a deep, profound connection between that and fruitfulness.

Luke Allen: 0:23

Hi friends, welcome to Ideas have Consequences. The podcast of the Disciple Nations Alliance. Here on this show we examine how our mission as Christians is to not only spread the gospel around the world, to all the nations, but our mission also includes to be the hands and feet of God, to transform the nations to increasingly reflect the truth, goodness and beauty of God's kingdom. Tragically, the church has largely neglected this second part of her mission and today most Christians have little influence on their surrounding cultures. Join us on this podcast as we rediscover what it means for each of us to disciple the nations and to create Christ-honoring cultures that reflect the character of the living God.

Scott Allen: 1:02

Well, welcome again everybody to another episode of Ideas have Consequences. This is the podcast of the Disciple Nations Alliance. My name is Scott Allen, I'm the president of the DNA and I'm joined today by my friends and coworkers, dwight Vogt and Luke Allen, and we're excited about today's discussion. We're going to be exploring something that Dwight discovered here recently that really got us thinking and talking and we thought we'd just turn the record button on essentially and capture our discussion for the podcast. Dwight, why don't you tell us what you discovered earlier this week and shared with us and started writing a little bit about?

Dwight Vogt: 1:43

Well, hopefully it'll be interesting. I don't know if I discovered anything new, but I was doing some. Well, let me go back a bit. We have a friend, arturo Cuba, and I've always been impressed with one of his teachings, which is he looks at the first part of Genesis, where it says the command to have dominion, cultural commission. He says be fruitful, and he does a. He makes a big deal out of that word. Be fruitful, not just in terms of producing children, but in terms of living fruitful lives.

Luke Allen: 2:12

And anyway, with that as a background. That's so funny. You brought that up.

Dwight Vogt: 2:18

I was listening to that while I ate breakfast this morning, that exact talk All right, all right, so I'm ready to go. Well, yeah, for our listeners it's out there in podcast land too, so go find it. It's a great, great little presentation by Arturo.

Scott Allen: 2:30

Dwight. How can people find that while we're just talking about that, Because that is really cool.

Luke Allen: 2:34

It's in our podcast 31 Days of Worldview Wisdom with Arturo Cuba. I think it's like episode 31.

Scott Allen: 2:40

31 Days of Worldview Wisdom with Arturo Cuba. I mean you could just Google that.

Luke Allen: 2:45

Yeah, We'll link it in the episode page as well, which you can see down in the show notes.

Dwight Vogt: 2:49

So All right Well anyway, with that as background, here I am. I was doing some writing last week and doing a little bit of research and looking at etymology of words. And I was looking at the word I didn't even know how I landed on it. But I was looking at the word. I didn't even know how I landed on it, but I was looking at the Latin for fruit or enjoyment. Anyway, I was reading it and it says you know the Latin derivative, we've got lots of our words come from Latin in the English language. Anyway, I was looking at the Latin word fructus and it says this meant both fruit and enjoyment and I thought, wow, they connected fruit or fruitfulness with enjoyment.

Dwight Vogt: 3:35

And I thought of my own life and I thought how much I enjoy being productive and being fruitful and doing things that I feel like make a difference in people's lives and help them, and just how that that just really inspires me and gives me joy. And I thought that the Latins must have known that. You know and and I thought anyway. So I just unpacked that a little bit and it took me back to you know, the command to be fruitful in Genesis 1.

Dwight Vogt: 4:04

And then we get together as a team on Monday mornings and we talk and John shared about his friend who died recently of well, I don't know what she died of, but she was a paraplegic and she'd suffered with cancer in life and she just had a difficult, difficult life. But the testimonies about her were that she was such, she was such a blessing and she was so full of joy and she, she blessed so many people with her life. And I thought, there again, it's like you've got this, this fruitful life, and then you have the fruit of joy that comes with that. And I thought, wow, that's just so wonderful that God tied those two things together for us, because all of us are looking for joy and happiness. And anyway, it was just fun to see that. And so you know, I brought it up to you guys and you said, hmm, might be right.

Scott Allen: 4:54

Okay, thanks, dwight.

Scott Allen: 4:56

In your very understated way, I thought what you, you know this connection, the fact that the Latin word for fruit, you know this connection, the fact that the Latin word for fruit, fructus I'm not sure I'm pronouncing it right, but that Latin word for fruit is also the same as the Latin word for enjoyment or joy I thought was very profound.

Scott Allen: 5:21

And, like you, my first thought on that was and, like you, my first thought on that was you know, yeah, when I'm producing, creating something that is of benefit to others especially, yeah, there's great joy in that. You know, and, like you, it led me to the scriptures to look at this profound concept of fruitfulness. That's really a key, powerful theme in the Bible that God wants us to bear fruit and that, as you look at least as I did, as I looked at those passages in the Bible that talk about God's intention and desire for us to bear fruit, that it's almost always tied with joy or enjoyment, and I thought, wow, dwight, was really onto something powerful here. And so, before we get into some of those verses I know you've got some too, dwight Luke, what are your initial thoughts on this discussion?

Luke Allen: 6:26

Lots of initial thoughts. I loved the concept. Immediately when you mentioned it, dwight, I was like why were you just randomly looking up the Latin word fructus? So still curious about that, but you can tell me later. It's such a cool concept. Like I was saying, arturo Cuba, who I really enjoy listening to one of our kingdomizers and teachers from down Latin America, talks about this a lot.

Luke Allen: 6:52

Genesis 128, the first command of God given to us in the Bible, or first blessing of God given to us in the Bible, says be fruitful. In that translation or understanding that, a lot of people think that means having kids, which it does, but it means so much more. It means be fruitful. And Arturo has this fun story that he shares where he uses the analogy of someone building a model airplane. A small little model airplane. And you build it and you put all this time and energy and work into it and you're enjoying it and you're creating this, this really cool creation of a model airplane, and then it's sitting out there in front of you, you're done with it, you're holding your controls in your hand.

Luke Allen: 7:32

And if you could say one thing to that airplane, what would you say? Well, you'd say fly, you know, take off. I want to, I want to see this thing work. Uh, and that's. It's kind of the same idea with God. He created us. He said we are very good in the garden, um, and then he looks at Adam and Eve and he says be fruitful. Go into this world that I've created for you and be fruitful. And uh, it's such a exciting command, blessing, um, but it also the fact that it leads to enjoyment just makes so much sense. That's the heart of God and uh, not only does he want us to be fruitful, but he wants us to enjoy that. So there's a ton there and I'm excited to unpack this with you guys.

Dwight Vogt: 8:15

Yeah. So basically he said fly, you know you get to. He got to Genesis 127 and said okay, I've created you in my image. I've given you all of this human agency and all of these abilities, all of this capacity.

Luke Allen: 8:27

Take off, do what you do best, and in so doing that you'll have joy.

Scott Allen: 8:33

Let's start there, in Genesis 1, luke, a little bit more in Dwight, because this is such a theme of our DNA teaching that to tell the whole biblical story you have to tell all four books of the story, if you will, or all four chapters creation, fall, redemption, consummation. And one of the problems with evangelicalism today is that we don't tell that whole story, we tell a partial story, we tell the story of the fall and redemption, but we miss the story of creation, the chapter on creation, and you can't—this story doesn't make sense. I mean, it's just so essential that you tell the story of creation because it explains who God is, how he made the world, how he wants us to relate to him and to the world, what our purpose is Like. All of that has to be understood before you get to the fall. Right, Okay, because it's really redemption then, is really we're redeemed to get back to the state that we were in before the fall, you know, and that all is kind of laid out in Genesis 1.

Scott Allen: 9:37

But let's look there at Genesis 1. God, it says, and starting in verse 27 and 28, very famous here, famously, god created mankind in his image, in the image of God. He created them, male and female. He created them. Verse 28 here is really key on this. God blessed them and said to them be fruitful. And then it goes on and talks about the kind of fruit here increase in number, fill the earth and subdue it. Well, again, as you said, luke, that's not, that includes children, you know procreation, but it is a much bigger idea than that. But what I want to just there's several things we could say. I want to draw your attention, especially you, dwight, that again, here we see what you said in Latin, is that there's a connection, the word is the same, the word fruit, and joy or enjoyment is the same. And here you see it right, because the word blessed means happy, right, god, you know, blessed them, he made them, he filled their lives with all sorts of good things, he made them happy. God blessed them right. And then he said be fruitful, right. So there's a connection right there in verse 28 between those two words. You know, and I don't think that's a stretch, right, god blessed them and said to them be fruitful. And so, again, right away, you see this profound connection right at the beginning, that God wants us to be filled with joy and he wants our lives to be blessed, and there's a deep, profound connection between that and fruitfulness.

Scott Allen: 11:31

And I think, in the garden too. You know, when we think of fruit, when I think of fruit, right, you think of trees, and the Bible actually, you know, uses the illustration of trees and plants and vines and these kinds of things when it comes to fruitfulness. But you think of how this beautiful tree right is thriving and flourishing and producing fruit in its season. I'm speaking here directly of Psalm 1, right, here directly of Psalm 1, right, this beautiful, thriving tree that's planted by streams of water, the water in Psalm 1 is God himself and his word, right, I mean that's the source of the fruitfulness and the blessing and the thriving of that tree. And then it produces fruit and the fruit itself.

Scott Allen: 12:28

There's a multiplicative aspect to that right, because the fruit has the seeds in it and the seeds then produce.

Scott Allen: 12:34

You know fruit and you know we often talk in our teaching of the parable of the mango, which is that you can count the number of seeds in a mango. That's number, that would be the number one. Count the number of seeds in a mango, that would be the number one. There's one seed in a mango, but you can't count the number of mangoes in a seed. In other words, there's no end to the multiplication and this idea that God wants this fruitfulness to be multiplied. And you see that right here in Genesis 1 too be fruitful, increase or multiply, fill the earth right. There's something here that God wants us to fill the earth with his glory with. You know, image bearers, you know that they themselves can go out and be fruitful and increase and fill the earth with the glory of God. So there's a lot here. It's just so important that we understand that God's desire for each of us and his creation I think the way he created you and me is to be fruitful, right?

Luke Allen: 13:36

So Hi friends, thanks again for joining us for this episode. I just wanted to take a quick minute to tell you about a project that we are really excited about here at the Disciple Nations Alliance. Over the years we've heard from a lot of you guys that you really enjoy our mission here at the DNA, but you have a little bit of a difficult time explaining it to your friends and family. Trust me, I get it. It is a little bit hard to explain sometimes because of the scope of our work. So for that reason, we wanted to help you guys share our message with other people through a short series of animated videos that we've created for you guys that do a great job explaining what we're all about here at the Disciple Nations Alliance.

Luke Allen: 14:17

Again, these are short animated videos, about five minutes each and they cover topics such as why worldview matters, why a biblical worldview is the only one that actually works, what our mission is as Christians and so many other topics. Altogether, there's going to be five videos. So far we've released two of them and you can find those linked in the episode landing page for this episode. To visit that page, just head to disciplenationsorg and you'll see it right there on the homepage, or you can just click the link in the show notes, which will take you to our episode page. Thanks again for listening, guys, and now back to the episode.

Dwight Vogt: 14:55

Yeah, I really appreciate that. The tree analogy in scripture and that's repeated again in Jeremiah Jeremiah 17, 8, where it says they will be like a tree planted by the water that sends out its roots by the stream. I like this. It does not fear when heat comes. So trials, tribulations, hardship, its leaves are always green. It has no worries.

Dwight Vogt: 15:16

In a year of drought Well, that can be a really, really bad year. And then it says that it never fails to bear fruit. And again, this isn't talking just about having children that year, it's about living a fruitful life. And uh, psalm 92, that's, you know, I'm getting older. So it says they will still bear fruit in old age, they will stay fresh and green. So there's a promise in scripture that that fruitfulness doesn't have a time limitation to it. Uh, you know, as children we can live fruitful lives. And even up to my dad lived a fruitful life to the point of death. You know, he was just always a blessing to people around him. So anyway, it's a great promise and it's a great truth, great reality that God has created.

Scott Allen: 15:58

Yeah absolutely no, it's really, really profound. I was thinking, luke and Dwight, about just fruit in the Bible, because, again, this is a theme, a real significant theme. And what does fruit, or fruitfulness, look like? What is this fruit that we're talking about? And I came up with three and I know, again, it's a bigger, it's a broader concept.

Scott Allen: 16:23

But one way that we're fruitful is simply just procreation. I mean, god established sex, marriage, family, right away in Genesis, chapter 1, and he had a purpose in it Be fruitful, multiply, fill the earth, and so and there's a connection there to joy, to enjoyment or happiness, and the Bible makes that explicit in many places, you know. One of those places is Psalm 128, which says your wife will be like a fruitful vine within your house. Your sons will be like olive shoots around your table. Thus is the man blessed. Okay, there's that word blessed.

Scott Allen: 17:03

Again, there's a connection between the word blessed and joyful and happy and enjoyment. Thus is the man blessed who fears the Lord. May you live to see your children's children, this idea of and I think we can all kind of relate to that that having a family, especially at somebody, like you were saying, dwight, an older age, where they can sit around a table and see not just their children having a family, especially somebody like you were saying, dwight an older age, where they can sit around a table and see not just their children but their grandchildren and maybe even their great-grandchildren. There's such a deep joy in that, and that's God's—that's the way he created us to be, you know. Another verse that comes to my mind here is Psalm 127,. Behold, children are a heritage from the Lord, the fruit of the womb. Right, there's that word fruit. Blessed or happy or joyful is the man who fills his quiver with them. So again, you see, one way that we can understand fruit is just simply procreation, having kids, and how there's a connection between that and joy, right?

Scott Allen: 18:08

I mean that's kind of throughout the Bible. Just, I want you guys to comment on that. You know your thoughts on that. But I just want to kind of paint the picture opposite of that, because the message in the culture today is not this way, right, you know. It downplays, right, having children. Children are a burden, you know. We want to have fewer and fewer of them. They, you know, we're producing people that are destroying the environment, they're a drain on resources, etc.

Scott Allen: 18:43

There's this really negative idea and that's why we're living at a time in the United States and around the West where people are having fewer and fewer children. We're doing just the opposite of what God has created us to do to be fruitful, to multiply. And there's a connection between that, I think, and this kind of deep unhappiness that people are struggling with, this deep lack of meaning in their lives and a sense of purpose, because so much of it is tied up in this one aspect of fruitfulness. Now, again, recognize not everyone's going to get married and not everyone's going to have children, and the Bible says that's okay and that's good. But generally, I think God created us to be fruitful in this one area and there's a great sense of joy, enjoyment in that as well. Thoughts on that one guys.

Dwight Vogt: 19:32

My response is I think that that's where the fall confuses us. Because, I mean we can all know situations where children have been a hardship, where they've been. You know kids that are prodigals and go away and you go. You know, I mean there's it's challenging to raise a family yes, and, and I I know the situation right now where the parents are struggling mightily with their child.

Dwight Vogt: 19:57

But the beauty of it is that the truth of genesis one and two is still right, in that there is the potential for great joy with children and and it's it's a real potential and it's a wonderful. I mean, you know, you and I and all and Luke, you know our children are our greatest delight. Well, you know they are our greatest delight. So, yeah, can there be hardship? Yes, there is. Can there be dry drought? Yes, there can be. But we don't look at family through the light of the fall.

Scott Allen: 20:28

We look at it through Genesis 1 and 2 and say yeah, and that you know that's a good thing to say, dwight. At the same time, that's not, you know, for those of us who've had kids and raised kids and now are having grandkids, that's not the whole picture, is it? There's the bigger picture, is one of of great joy I get. I derive more joy from my family, you know, than I do from just about anything else, and a sense of satisfaction to Luke. I mean, you're right in the middle of this right now. What are your thoughts?

Scott Allen: 20:54

I mean you, just you guys, are being fruitful and multiplying as we speak. You know what? What are your thoughts on this? This aspect of the connection between procreation, fruitfulness, this aspect?

Luke Allen: 21:05

of the connection between procreation, fruitfulness and joy. Oh yeah, it's so. It's impossible to explain to people how amazing being a dad is and how much joy is there. There's no words that, you know, can sum that up, because we use joy for everything. Pizza, you know, a movie, but having a kid is absolutely unbelievably fun and joy filled and such a blessing and, like most things in life it's. You know it's not easy, but that just makes it all the sweeter, you know, I think.

Luke Allen: 21:36

To dig into the analogy again, I think in order to bear fruit, you need to always be growing, you need to be always pushing a little further. You need to. It definitely requires faith. Just like with all the times fruit is used in the Bible, the fruit is rooted to something, whether that's the water watering the tree, or in John 15, very directly I am the vine, you are the branches, those who remain in. We will bear fruit. So we need to remain in Christ and from that faith in Christ we can bear fruit.

Luke Allen: 22:07

But along that process it doesn't. When God calls us to bear fruit, it doesn't mean that we need to understand the fullness of the picture of what he's calling us to before we can take that step of faith to bear fruit. I know a lot of people my age wait to have kids because they're worried about it or they can't fully envision how they can possibly be parents and figure out that crazy change in life which it is. So they'll wait, and sometimes I mean God doesn't call us to worry about the outcome of the fruit, he just calls us to be fruitful and in a way the rest is left up to him. He says be fruitful today, do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will take care of itself. But in today, be fruitful, and then God will do his part and then the outcome is up to him. So it might not be the outcome we expect at the get-go, but it might be a lot better and along the process of being fruitful daily, there is so much enjoyment in that process.

Dwight Vogt: 23:10

It's interesting you say that, Luke, because I come from a farmer background and every year they take a risk and they put seed in the ground and they put a lot of effort into that seed, with no guarantees.

Scott Allen: 23:22

But God produces, but they do it because generally it produces a crop, maybe not every year.

Dwight Vogt: 23:30

No, they do it because that's the way you get fruit. You cannot get fruit without taking the risk of planting the seed. You can't, you just can't.

Scott Allen: 23:40

And there's a connection we're going to talk about it in a second between work, and sometimes hard work, and sacrifice and fruitfulness and joy, right. All of those things become kind of connected together, right? So this idea that you know I think oh hard, you know, having children is hard work. It requires a lot of sacrifice and pain, yes, but also that's how you get joy, right, that's where joy comes from. There's a connection there as well, and I think in our culture we've often disconnected those things.

Luke Allen: 24:12

Yeah, well, I think it's because we live in a time of a lot of selfishness, a lot of narcissism, the sovereign individualism Right. You can't get joy through selfishness. We are made to bless others, we're made to serve. That's the way God designed us and in so doing there's joy. But when we just try to live in our own little bubble, I watched a video yesterday of someone who was a new mom and she was saying how terrible it is and how it's made her so pro-abortion by having kids, and it was the most selfish thing you could possibly say, and of course you're not enjoying it, You're extremely selfish.

Luke Allen: 24:56

But if you can grasp the beauty of the way God designed parenting to be which, yes, it requires work Almost all good things do Then you can enjoy that process and there's so much joy there. But it requires you obeying God. You were blessed in Genesis 128 to be a blessing and we were created to love God and love others, and if you can embrace that, then there's a lot of joy there.

Scott Allen: 25:23

I want to come back to. You know I asked the question earlier about when we talk about God. You know, be fruitful. There's Dwight, you know there's a connection between fruit. It's the same Latin word as joy. There's this biblical imperative throughout the Bible to be fruitful. And then the question is well, what does that mean? How are we fruitful? What does this fruit look like? One way is, you know, procreation, children. You know that we have in marriage, grandchildren, great-grandchildren and future generations. You know that that's part of this fruit. I think.

Scott Allen: 25:56

Another one that came to my mind is, you know, the fruit of the Spirit in Galatians, right? A couple things I'd like to say on this and get your thoughts on it. You know, the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience or forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. These are fruits, these are good fruits that are produced in our lives, kind of inwardly virtues, if you will, and they're produced. The source of the fruit in our lives is the Spirit, god's Spirit, right? And that ties back to Genesis or, excuse me, psalm 1. You know Psalm 1, blessed is the man who doesn't walk in the way of sinners or sit in the seat of scoffers, but whose delight is in the law of the Lord and on his law he meditates day and night. The source of the fruit is God and God's word, god's law, god's promises.

Scott Allen: 27:00

I mean God himself is the source of the fruit. So the spirit here is the source of the fruit, but the fruit is love, joy, peace, patience, etc. And I think one thing I'd like to say is, in addition to the fact that God is the source of the fruit, just that deep, abiding relationship with our Heavenly Father and our Creator, is that the first fruits here are what? Love and joy. Again, there's that connection between fruit and joy or enjoyment, and this is so powerful, I think. In fact I was writing my chapter on the 10 words on the word love and I was really struck in my writing on that how deeply connected the word love is to joy. Deeply connected the word love is to joy. In fact, webster, when he defines love, the way that he defines it, is that which we find great joy in or enjoyment in. You know we love to take a walk on the beach at sunset, right, you know it's because it's a source of great joy or enjoyment. And I know when I first read that there was something I was like, like it just struck me as like is that right? Because I've been so shaped by another aspect of biblical love, the agape love of sacrificing for the good of another and the idea there is joy doesn't really factor in. You're doing something that's hard and painful for the good of another and the idea there is joy doesn't really factor in. You know, you're doing something that's hard and painful for the good of another. And so we're kind of taught to kind of separate joy and enjoyment from love, like love isn't a feeling that we get, it's something that we do, it's an action.

Scott Allen: 28:43

I think all of it is true, but I think my walkaway was man, you just can't separate love and joy. Like to do that is to do severe damage to the biblical concept of love. And so there's a deep connection between love and joy. And even Jesus' sacrifice on the cross, which wasn't, you know, that wasn't joyful, it was painful in the extreme. But, as it says the author of Hebrews says, for the joy set before extreme. But as it says the author of Hebrews says, for the joy set before him, he did it. So even there, in that ultimate sacrifice, that painful, searing sacrifice of agape, love, there's joy, right. So again, I'm just connecting here, guys, fruit and joy, because that's how we started, that's what we're talking about and we're talking about the fruit of the Spirit here in our lives being joy. Thoughts on that one.

Luke Allen: 29:32

I love that concept, dad, of connecting joy to agape love to seeking the highest good for another at a perceived sacrifice for myself. The most joyful people you meet in life have figured that out. You know, they have been married for 60 years and they love each other and there's so much joy there, and the reason that that lasted is because they figured out that in order to have a strong, healthy marriage, I need to seek the highest good for my spouse in all things the highest good for my spouse in all things.

Luke Allen: 30:11

And those people are so joyful and they tend to have strong families and their families tend to love each other. And there is there. Some of the most joyful people in the world are great grandparents who have a loving family surrounding them.

Dwight Vogt: 30:20

You know that's just a picture of joy.

Luke Allen: 30:22

And there's a lot of other pictures of joy. That one's just very obvious. I mean, in smaller examples, you worked hard all semester for that final and you put in the work and you sacrificed your time and your energy and your sleep and you get that grade. Oh, that feels good because of how much energy and effort you put into that, or in sports. The more effort you put into that or in sports, you know, the harder you, the more effort you put into that final game, the championship, the, the outcome is so sweet versus just winning that first game. So that's, that's kind of a constant, I think.

Dwight Vogt: 30:57

Yeah, I think yeah, what you're saying there, luke, makes sense to me too, because that's my experience. It's like sometimes I struggle with the word joy, just because it almost feels like an emotional high that can come without anything attached to it, and I think there are moments where, whether you're in church and worship or in prayer, you can get a sense of fullness and peace and joy that's just not attached to anything other than your focus focus on God. But most times my joy comes from an actual achievement or an actual passing a test, or being with my kids or enjoying good food.

Dwight Vogt: 31:38

I think what? What the spirit helps us do is, at least in my life, it's like it. I'm reminded that this is a gift of God, this joy right, here is a gift from God. It's not just oh, I do this and I feel good. It's like no, that's a gift of God that he first gives us the ability to have children, he gives us the ability to pass that test, he gives us the ability to work hard, and then he gives us this feeling of satisfaction.

Luke Allen: 32:06

That too is a gift, or the ability to sit and go card, and then he gives us this feeling of satisfaction.

Dwight Vogt: 32:10

That too is a gift, you know. Or the ability to sit and go wow, that's a beautiful sunset where sometimes you're just so busy you just keep driving right past it and all of a sudden the spirit can remind you hey, stop and take a look, this is really cool. And then you but it's anyway. There's a connection there and I like that. I like that a lot.

Scott Allen: 32:31

Yeah, I think another way that we can understand fruit in the Bible and we've just alluded to it earlier. But there's a passage in Psalm 128, I referred to that earlier that talks about the fruit of our labor. It says you will eat the fruit of your labor. Blessings and prosperity will be yours. And there's a fruitfulness that comes from our own creativity and our own work, and I think that again ties back to Genesis, chapter 1, verse 28,. God bless them, be fruitful. And, luke, as you said, and Dwight, you both have said that fruitfulness is more than just procreating and having children. Both have said that fruitfulness is more than just procreating and having children. It's this idea of working, being creative and producing something that you know the Bible calls the fruit of our labor.

Scott Allen: 33:18

There's a great quote that you guys both know, but I'll read it again. It's really—I've loved it so much because it speaks to this element of the kind of fruitfulness that God desires out of our life, the way that he's created us. It comes from the theologian James K Smith. He talks about the joy and the creativity of work, of improving things, of making things better, of making the world better, more prosperous, of creating beauty, of creating music or landscapes or any kind of innovation. It's a source of right, that's a fruit and it's a source of joy. James Smith says this God blessed not only Adam and Eve but every human being with gifts and abilities creative minds, words, language bodies, hands, mind, feet to work, and that work is fundamental to our human dignity. We're to use our God-given endowments and blessings right to care for, to expand the garden, to leave this magnificent world even better than we found it.

Scott Allen: 34:28

Smith goes on and says when God calls creation into being in Genesis 1, he announces that it's very good, but he doesn't announce that it's finished. Creation doesn't come into existence ready-made, with schools or art or museums or farms. All of these things are begging to be unpacked. The riches and the potential of God's good creation are entrusted to his image bearers, and that is our calling and commission to be fruitful in terms of what we do in this world. That God made the fruit of our labor and I think, dwight, when you first brought this up to our attention, I think in some ways this is what you had in mind. Like, I enjoy this process of working and being creative and improving things and I get joy from that, right I mean isn't that kind of this was the one that you kind of had in your mind, I think.

Dwight Vogt: 35:24

Yeah, yeah, and I think this is also. You know, the amazing thing about scriptures is that it's not just for believers. I mean, I tend to think it is. Oh, this is a verse for us Christians to think about and to dwell on. But really, you know, I have friends that don't follow the Lord and they find great satisfaction in work, but not in just. I have to remind them. But when they find the deepest satisfaction, it's in the fruitfulness of their work, not in oh, I got a paycheck for it or I made this amount of money. That's a part of it. But it's interesting. You can help people see God's handiwork in their lives by pointing to something of fruitfulness. You enjoy fruitfulness because that's the way God made you. You're actually touching.

Scott Allen: 36:13

That's how you're made. That's how you're made, Exactly Christian or not. That's how you're made.

Dwight Vogt: 36:17

You're touching the essence of how God made you and wants you to function. It's like a divine godly moment and they go, whoa whoa whoa.

Scott Allen: 36:26

No, I'm just doing my thing here, you know Anyway. And again, the fall, you know, distorts all of that. But redemption being saved, you know, through faith and the finished work of Jesus Christ is really in many ways to get back to this.

Dwight Vogt: 36:44

Exactly.

Scott Allen: 36:44

This kind of this fruitfulness that God wants us to have all the way back in Genesis 1. I mean to do it the way that he wants us to do it. And, dwight, you were talking about work and this productive work and how you find enjoyment in it, and I was thinking more deeply about that, and it brought to mind a book I read many years ago by Arthur Brooks, who used to be the president of the American Enterprise Institute and he did a lot of research. He was kind of a sociologist and a researcher on happiness and he said that there was like three. He boiled it down to three. There's three keys to a happy life, and he may have had four, but there was three that I recall.

Scott Allen: 37:26

One was again this is his words faith, and by that I believe he meant, you know, in my own words it meant a deep, abiding relationship with God. That's a source of joy. Right, and this is the Bible makes that clear too. God is the source of the fruit, the joy you know, abiding in his word, abiding in his commandments, that's the source of joy or happiness. The second thing that he mentioned was family right, and we've already talked about that. Be fruitful, multiply, start families. Families are a blessing, it's a source of joy for you in a way that if you have, you know, if you're in your 80s and you've never had children, you're all alone. There's a great kind of loss or something there. And then the third one, dwight, and this is to the point we're just making.

Scott Allen: 38:16

He said meaningful work, and what he meant by meaningful work as a source of happiness was work that makes a positive contribution or a benefit to others, makes a positive contribution or a benefit to others, and that really spoke to me, because when I find great joy in my work, you know, in the DNA is when somebody comes to me and said what you did, whatever you wrote or your teaching or whatever it was, really helped me. Like I can hardly think of something that brings me more joy than that, right, you know something that brings me more joy than that, right. And so this idea of meaningful work, like the fruit of our labor, right, this meaningful work, and it could be a simple thing, it doesn't have to be some deep, profound thing, it could be just a mechanic who fixes a problem with your car, right, and I'm so grateful that my car runs down well, and I say to him thanks, your work made a difference and that brings him joy, you know. So, anyways, we can.

Luke Allen: 39:16

I think go ahead analogy that Jessica Shakir gave us when we were having a very similar discussion back on our episode taking back Eden with her a couple months ago, and in the Garden of Eden, god gave us an avocado and he said be fruitful. And that avocado is a beautiful thing, but it's not. It has a lot of potential that hasn't been uncovered yet, and being fruitful for anyone who has that avocado looks like grabbing that avocado, cutting it open, turning it into guacamole and then enjoying that.

Scott Allen: 39:52

And then maybe even planting the seed and getting a whole bunch of more avocado trees. Yeah, exactly, yeah, you can take that analogy really far.

Luke Allen: 40:00

but all of us can do that. We can take what God has given us and we can make it even better. Yeah, exactly Because we are image bearers of us and we can make it even better. Yeah, exactly Because we are image bearers of him and because we are co-creators, we have that ability, and then that process is so enjoyable and a lot of times the outcome is super enjoyable and I just think that is such a cool concept that all of us as humans share that in common.

Scott Allen: 40:24

Yeah.

Luke Allen: 40:24

Back to that quote, dad. I really, I really like the way that quote started, where it was talking about how God has he has a plan for everyone essentially Arturo Cuba. When talking about fruitfulness, he defined service in a way that I found really helpful, because as humans, that's one of our principles, as Christians is we are created to serve.

Luke Allen: 40:46

And he says service is helping someone reach their full potential to be fruitful, and for me, as a parent, that makes so much sense. To be a good parent is to serve my kids. Okay, how do you do that? You help them reach their full potential to be fruitful, to reach that plan that God has given to them specifically, and he's given a plan to everyone, but for my child specifically, he has a beautiful plan that was given to them to bring about prosperity in the world, biblical prosperity, and as a parent, I have the just absolute honor to help them reach that potential to be fruitful, to help explore where has God given you gifts? How can you dig into those, how can you build your physical body as Jesus did. He grew in wisdom and stature in favor with God and man. I'm going to help my kid grow in wisdom and stature in favor with God and man and in so doing, my child will be fruitful, and then they can take that and they can go and bring about biblical prosperity, as God has called them towards.

Scott Allen: 41:57

Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, there's so much joy in seeing your children, luke and I'm thinking of you and others, you know, but who use their gifts to be a blessing to others through their work. I mean, you know, you feel like man. I'm doing something that God, you know, has created me to do. This is really right at the heart.

Scott Allen: 42:16

And again, I just want to emphasize again because I think evangelicals, again, we have this kind of truncated story. We start with sin and the fall and then we think about the next story of redemption as just being saved from the effects of the fall, but we miss all of this in Genesis, chapter 1. This is our story, this is what we are created for and this is what we're saved for. By the way, to recover all of this that we are reading about and talking about here, it just needs to be emphasized again because I think we just don't get it. You know, I think we hear too often that our purpose is simply to preach the gospel and, you know, get people saved and get them into churches and, by the way, that is an aspect of fruitfulness, but I think for evangelicals it's kind of limited to that right.

Dwight Vogt: 43:07

But think of that in terms of your neighbor and what Luke just said. The neighbor is to help them find God, get them into church, get them to understand who God is. But ultimately, what is that for? It's so that they can live the fruitful life that God created them to live. So you're still going to go back to that original purpose, the cross is the way to get there, but you don't stop there.

Scott Allen: 43:33

Exactly.

Dwight Vogt: 43:33

So anyway.

Scott Allen: 43:35

Exactly Well said.

Luke Allen: 43:37

Well, I think one of the downfalls, or one of the consequences, negative consequences of the sacred-secular divide that we're kind of talking about here is when we become Christians we think we have to put aside certain parts of ourselves that have the potential to bear fruit, but now we have to bear fruit only in the quote-unquote spiritual areas of life. Whereas I think of Eric Little, he wanted to go be a missionary. This is a famous Olympian from 1924.

Scott Allen: 44:07

Yeah, Chariots of Fire.

Luke Allen: 44:09

Yeah, the movie Chariots of Fire. He ended up being a missionary but he struggled with. I'm a Christian. I want to serve God in quote-unquote spiritual ways by going to China on the mission field and serving God there, because that's where I'll be really fruitful.

Scott Allen: 44:23

Right, that's what fruit looks like, but at the same time.

Luke Allen: 44:25

God gifted him with the ability to run very fast, and there's a lot of untapped fruitfulness in that area that Eric Little figured out. He could also use so a lot of times. Unfortunately, because of the sacred-secular divide, we'll give up the potential to be a fast runner or whatever that looks like in your life be a computer scientist, or be a coach of a sports team, or be a musician or an artist.

Luke Allen: 44:51

We'll leave that behind because we need to quote, unquote go, do, bear fruit in something spiritual and God says no, I just said be fruitful. That means all of it.

Dwight Vogt: 45:00

It's interesting In all areas of your life, Luke, you say that and I think of Eric Little, and the fact is he did end up in China and was a missionary there and died there, I believe. But we remember Eric Little because of Chariots of Fire. The fruit of his life for me is him running and me knowing his story because he ran and so the fruit really was his running.

Scott Allen: 45:26

It's such a good illustration. And if you haven't watched Chariots of Fire or haven't watched that film recently, go back and watch it again because it's timeless. It's just such a classic and you know there's a scene in that that who, you know, is really worried about his running and is encouraging him. You know, to put it aside, it's a distraction. You know you need to go back to the mission field, go back to China and be a missionary, because that's God's will for your life. And Eric, you know, is wrestling with that kind of admonition. He's struggling with it and he doesn't disagree Like, yes, that's important to go to China and to be an evangelist and to share my faith. But then he also says but God also made me fast and when I run I feel his glory, you know. And so he says you know, god has created me to do this kind of work right, if you will, and to bear this kind of fruit. And as you said, dwight, you know God used that, you know, in a really powerful way too. You know that kind of in a really powerful way too. You know that kind of—so yeah, we need to encompass a lot more than just spiritual offspring, if you will, you know through sharing our faith in this concept of fruitfulness. Being fruitful, it encompasses at least all three of these things that we've talked about, and probably much more. Being fruitful in terms of procreation, having children, the fruits of the Spirit, and then you know, the fruits of our labor, the work that God's called us to do, and that can include being a track star in the Olympics of thoughts.

Scott Allen: 47:29

But there was one passage that just blew my mind today as I was doing some thinking about this, dwight this connection between fruit and joy. Because when I think of joy in the Bible, the verse that immediately comes to my mind is John 15, verse 11, when Jesus says to his disciples I've spoken these things to you so that my joy, my joy, jesus's joy, might be in you and that your joy might be full. And I love the heart of Jesus in that so much. Right, first of all, it's a picture of Jesus as somebody who's so completely filled with joy himself. Right, jesus is the most joyful person that ever lived and he wants that joy to be in us and he wants our joy to be full. Right, like complete. I love that, okay, okay, what I didn't see was that that comes at the end of the famous passage on the vine and the branches, which is all about fruit, right? So let me just read it here.

Scott Allen: 48:31

I am the vine, my father is the vine dresser. I'm starting with verse 1 here in John 15. Every branch in me that doesn't bear fruit, he takes away. Every branch that does bear fruit, he prunes so that it will bear more fruit. And then he goes on and he says the branch cannot bear fruit by itself. Again, this is the source of our fruitfulness and the source of our joy. It's God. The branch cannot bear fruit by itself unless it abides in the vine. Jesus is the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me. Wow, and I am. Him will bear much fruit, wow.

Scott Allen: 49:20

And then it goes on and he says and then it goes on and he says by this my father is glorified that you bear much fruit and that is how you prove that you are my disciple. And then he says as the father has loved me Jesus is speaking. As the father has loved me, and we talked about love and the connection between love and joy. As the father has loved me, so I have loved you. Abide in my love. If you keep my commandments, you abide in my love, just as I've kept my Father's commandments and I abide in his love. And then he says I've told you these things so that my joy may be in you and your joy may be full. I just was blown away by that, dwight, because it's just to me, it's just such a powerful passage that talks about the connection between, again, the Latin word fruit and the Latin word enjoyment or joy as the same word and their deep, deep connection.

Dwight Vogt: 50:21

Thoughts on that famous passage here just the reality that it includes love. Those are the three you have fruitfulness, you have love and you have joy, spoken of by Jesus there it's a great reminder you know, I've been thinking a lot about the DNA.

Scott Allen: 50:42

We want to see the church be God's agent in bringing positive change, changing the world right. We want to see nations discipled. And I've been thinking so much about how—what are the means or the methods through which you see society change? And I've been thinking about it mainly in the context of how we're seeing such negative change in our Western society right now, kind of at the hands of people who subscribe to kind of secular, Marxist theories of change. Right, and it's interesting when they talk about change, by the way, it's all in a negative framework of deconstruction. Right, it's deconstructing, it's tearing down. It's so interesting it's almost the demonic opposite of what we're talking about, which is fruitfulness, which is all about, you know, building up and bearing good fruit. It's not.

Scott Allen: 51:39

You know, the Christian vision isn't a deconstructing, it's a constructing vision. And then the tactics and the methods that they use to affect the change that they want to see are power tactics of fear and censorship and coercion and creation of false narratives and lies, and you name it. I mean, we're seeing this in spades all through our culture right now and all of that has got me thinking about what's the Christian way. What's the Christian vision, or tactic, if you will, for change in culture and in society? And I'm convinced that, Dwight, what you're talking about here is that vision. I mean, it's this.

Scott Allen: 52:22

It's it's being filled with joy, it's bearing good fruit, it's so attractive to people that have no meaning in their lives or are are are, you know, broken in many ways when they see it, when they see this, that they want it right, they want that and that's how it's, that desire to see that, you know and I want that, it's this very positive way about bringing about change. This is, you know, we're not using power tactics to you know, we're not trying to set up a theocracy and shove something down people's throats. We're trying to show them this more excellent way, this better way, and I think it's connected to fruitfulness and joy. Excellent way, this better way, and I think it's connected to fruitfulness and joy. Thoughts on that, guys. I'm just kind of reflecting here on some of these things here about change and how you see society change.

Dwight Vogt: 53:11

Yeah, I'm just reflecting too, as you're talking about fruitfulness, that I think of the three transcendents. Then we're back to those right what is a fruitful activity, what is a good work. It's something that is bound in truth, that is good. It produces goodness and ultimately results in beauty and people. Humans, we're attracted to what is true, what is good, what is beautiful.

Scott Allen: 53:39

And beauty is a source of great joy.

Dwight Vogt: 53:41

Yeah, and the result of that is a sense of peace, of shalom, of joy.

Scott Allen: 53:46

Yeah, all these are the fruits of the Spirit and when this is demonstrated in the lives of Christians, when they're fruitful in the fullest way that we're talking about, there's something that's powerful, attractive. People want that, you know, and then, when they experience, their lives are changed, and then it goes on. That's how I think that's the Christian revolution. In many ways, it's this revolution of love, of joy, of fruitfulness, of doing something productive, meaningful that blesses other people. Yes, the gospel is absolutely central. So don't you know, never want people to think that you know that the gospel and the proclamation of the gospel isn't central to our mission, but, you know, it cannot be separated from this broader understanding of fruitfulness and joy.

Dwight Vogt: 54:39

Yeah, and ultimately, the gospel is tied back into John 15, where you were saying I am the vine, you are the branches. The reason why he can be the vine and we be the branches is because he united us at the cross with himself, and so you know if we're going to believe in that verse. We have to believe that that's the source of fruitfulness and that's the source of joy for people. Then we go back to the cross, because that's what unites us.

Scott Allen: 55:06

And, by the way, jesus doesn't define fruit here in John 15. He says you will bear much fruit if you abide in me. But what is that fruit? And I would say, you know right? The kind of Gnostic evangelical would say it's we're just talking about, you know, converts. No, I think that we're talking about something much bigger than that.

Dwight Vogt: 55:26

Right, you have to have a very narrow reading of fruit in the Bible to just see that.

Scott Allen: 55:33

Yeah, right Now, I think those three. We see these pictures of fruitfulness in the Bible Procreation, the bearing of family, children, not just any children, but godly offspring, as it talks about in Malachi, that glorify God, you know, and then you know the fruit of our labor and all that we're talking about, this fruit concept, the fruits of the Spirit. It's a big, rich concept, you know, that God wants us to be. The picture again is that flourishing tree that bears all that fruit and is planted by streams of water and even when there's famine and times of hardship, it's gonna, those roots, go down deep.

Luke Allen: 56:11

yeah, yeah, I, the concept of joy as we are trying to go and disciple the nations, I think is such a beautiful concept. I was listening to a cultural commentator a very famous cultural commentator here in the US recently explain how he became a Christian and he was just out of college, was living a very worldly life, and he looked around and he saw that some of his friends were very joy-filled and just happier people and they all happened to be Christians. So he said I'm going to go check out this Christian thing. And being a Christian by no means means that we are going to be happy all the time, but God does promise us that we will have joy.

Luke Allen: 56:54

Those are different things but a lot of times joy does look like happiness. And whenever I go into a church and I see a lot of joy-filled people that are light-hearted and are quick to laugh, I know that that is a healthy church. Some of the most happy, joy-filled places I've been are Christian camps and churches and you just sense in the air that there is a real joy that is not earthly in this place and these are a lot of just regular people living difficult lives in the fallen world but have found the joy of the Lord and I think that is such a witness and something that we might overlook sometimes and that worries me because it's such an important piece of being a witness to the world.

Scott Allen: 57:46

Absolutely. It's this powerful means of changing the world, because, you know, we all want to be at the end of the day, we want to experience that joy and that happiness that can only come from God and I think if you pursue that back to its source, that's where you're going to end, if it's an honest pursuit of that Exactly Well, guys's an honest pursuit of that?

Scott Allen: 58:06

Exactly Well, guys. Super great thoughts and really deep. Personally, I'm going to keep reflecting on this. Dwight, I want to thank you for putting this out there. I love working on this team because you get this a lot. Dwight comes in on Monday and says, hey, guess what I found out? The Latin word for fruit is the same as the Latin word for joy.

Dwight Vogt: 58:26

Once every five years I come up with an idea.

Scott Allen: 58:30

I guess my encouragement to all of you who are listening, and to myself, is to be as fruitful as we can, you know, because that's how God created us. So what ways can we bear good fruit? How can we be as fruitful as we possibly can? And secondly, that you know, we've got to remember, that the source of the fruit is that abiding in the vine, in Jesus himself, in his word. Like it doesn't just—we don't produce it out of ourselves, right, we can't. We're created to bear good fruit. I mean, that's how we're made. But the source, the energy, the power for that comes from God and from his word. So those are just a couple of takeaways for me personally. What about you guys? What are some?

Dwight Vogt: 59:18

takeaways for you as we think about how to apply what we're talking about. I think one takeaway I'd have is it goes back to your Arthur Brooks quote on meaningful work. And that reminds me of our friend Christian Overman, who said how do we have meaningful work? And he goes we have that by bringing meaning to our work.

Dwight Vogt: 59:36

And then, I don't remember the illustration, but I can think of a bus driver who's just driving a bus every day down the same street, and yet he can bring meaning from Genesis 1 and throughout Scripture to his work in the sense that how am I serving people? Am I providing the cleanest possible atmosphere? Do I greet people when they come in? What can I do to serve these people well in this atmosphere?

Scott Allen: 1:00:01

And by doing so he's bringing meaning to that work that's rooted in his faith and joy to the people that he's serving because of his work. All at once, it's much, much more than I drive a bus. I just drive a bus. I just drive a bus. Same route, same place, every day.

Luke Allen: 1:00:20

Yeah so.

Scott Allen: 1:00:21

No, it's so profound this biblical concept of work and work produces fruit. I mean, that's the thing. We have this incredible privilege of applying our God-given creativity and our effort and our work, using our hands and our minds, and all that to produce new things that never existed before and that brings joy. You know, and you can see the fruit of that over generations. I mean, I often think of Europe, you know, just because Europe has been so deeply influenced by the Bible over centuries. And you just walk around, you know places like Oxford in England or some well-tilled field in Germany, and it's like man. I just so enjoy the fruit of all that work you know done. You know done to bring glory to God. So, yeah, we could go on and on about work. Luke, what about you in terms of just takeaways for folks? You know from what we're talking about today.

Luke Allen: 1:01:20

Yeah well, for those of you guys who don't know dwight, uh, I think it's so fitting that dwight you were the one that brought this topic to the table, because dwight is a guy that, for his vacation time and his weekends, is always either building decks, digging trenches or laying cement, like dwight that's his vacation, right, and you, it seems like, which is kind of a or watching.

Dwight Vogt: 1:01:45

DIY YouTube.

Luke Allen: 1:01:47

Yeah, to go and fix the shower or whatever it is. So you definitely have some enjoyment in your work, it seems, because you keep doing it. Takeaways, yeah, be fruitful. That can look like a lot of things. That can look like going to the gym. That can look like making a of things. That can look like going to the gym. That can look like making a meal. That can look like, um, loving on your physical next door neighbors. God calls us to love our neighbors as ourselves. Uh, and that is everyone. But, uh, you can start really simply with the people that live right next to you.

Luke Allen: 1:02:17

Uh, and then, uh, god calls us all to serve others, um, and he has also placed pretty much all of us in areas of authority, and, uh, biblical authority is meant to serve others. Uh, one of the best ways that we can serve others is encourage them to bear fruit, and encourage them to bear the fruit that God has predestined them to bear, um, in a lot of cases. So, find those people around you, encourage them to bear fruit, whether that's again just going to the gym, cooking a meal, or whether that's going and getting a doctorate, whatever that looks like. Encourage those around you to bear fruit.

Luke Allen: 1:02:53

And of course always point back to the vine, the one that apart from him we can do nothing. Really practical takeaways, Absolutely.

Scott Allen: 1:03:02

You know, I think you're alluding to this and I think it's really profound that the degree of fruitfulness that any person you know has the potential for is something I think we vastly underestimate. I mean, through God right and the power of just an obedient life, I think the potential for fruitfulness, especially when we think about it in terms of just multiple generations, is vast, way bigger than I think we think. There's so much potential in every human being to be fruitful, and I think you're really right there. And I just want to again, I want to counter this with, kind of, the current state of our culture, because this idea of fruitfulness is not an emphasis in the culture at all right now.

Scott Allen: 1:03:52

You know, right now we're dealing with this whole thing of kind of victimhood, you know, and I've been hurt and I am owed, and in some ways that's just. It's just, it destroys any kind of thought about being fruitful and productive, right? You know you don't even think that way when you think I've been wronged, I'm owed, you know somebody owes me. You know I just need to sit and receive, you know, because of the harm that's been done. You know, and I'm not saying that that's always a wrong thought, but if that's the overall framework of our lives, you're not going to be thinking about.

Scott Allen: 1:04:31

You know how can I be fruitful and create wealth and beauty, and you know meaning and joy in other people's lives and, consequently, you're not going to be joyful, right, you know's, this victim thing isn't leading to any joy in people's lives, right, even if they get, you know, handouts or whatever it is, I mean, it's just not a source of joy. You know, again, arthur brooks, like he, he didn't discover that that was a source of happiness. Just, you have to work and you do meaningful work that benefits others. That's the secret for happiness. You know, um so um.

Dwight Vogt: 1:05:14

Final thoughts, guys, as we wrap up I'll just add one thought to what you just said god, and I appreciate our friends in India, because there are situations where people need a lot of support, but what their genius was was they have a son who's autistic and so he needs a lot of support. If you looked at the scale of life, he is given more than he gives. But they go back to what Luke said their purpose for him is that he would bear fruit.

Dwight Vogt: 1:05:47

So they pour into his life, but there's an expectation that at his level he will bear fruit.

Scott Allen: 1:05:54

And.

Dwight Vogt: 1:05:54

I think that's the goal and that's what you're pointing at yeah Well, super discussion guys.

Scott Allen: 1:06:01

Wow, really really grateful for it. Grateful for you guys and also grateful for all of you who are listening to this podcast and encourage you to share it with your friends if you find it useful, and just help us get the word out. And I also just want to quickly mention, too I've got a book coming out this fall. We're putting the final touches on it. It's with the publisher now. I've alluded to it before and you'll hear much more about it. It's the power of words to bring about a change, a positive change in culture. But to do that, we've got to recover true meanings, true definitions of some of our most important words, like truth and marriage and and authority and justice. So be looking forward to that. We disciple the nations through the true meaning of words. Words are the basic building block of culture, so look forward to sharing more about that with you as the weeks come out here. Thanks for listening to another episode of Ideas have Consequences. This is the podcast of the Disciple Nations Alliance.

Luke Allen: 1:07:07

Thank you for joining us for this episode.

Luke Allen: 1:07:09

As my dad was just saying, he has a new book coming out this year and, as of a couple minutes ago, we just finalized on the title, so I thought I would share that with you guys.

Luke Allen: 1:07:17

It is going to be called 10 Words to Heal a Broken World Restoring the True Meaning of Our most important words. So, again, we're really excited about this project. Any of you guys who know us know that we have a heart to bring God's truth, goodness and beauty into our cultures, and we believe that the reformation of words is gonna be step one in that process. So we hope you'll be able to join us here on Ideas have Consequences as we continue to dive into this book in the next few months prior to the release. For those of you who are new, Ideas have Consequences is brought to you by the Disciple Nations Alliance. If you'd like to learn more about our ministry, you can find us on Instagram, Facebook and YouTube or on our website, which is disciplenationsorg. Thanks again for joining us, guys, and we hope you'll be able to tune in again next week here on Ideas have Consequences. Our episodes come out every Tuesday at 5 pm Pacific time.