Ideas Have Consequences

Cultivating Imagination and Deep Thinking Amid a Culture War with Samuel Felix

• Disciple Nations Alliance • Season 2 • Episode 20

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In today’s anti-Christian culture, how can churches, ministries, and all of us communicate effectively with people who would rather not listen to what we have to say? What strategies can we employ to help people engage the biblical worldview? Our featured guest, Samuel Felix, is a long-time friend and Kingdomizer who works professionally as a digital artist and communication specialist. Samuel has a unique gift for helping people to reflect deeply and understand complex ideas. His goal is to turn passive consumers into active thinkers who take their assumptions and worldviews seriously. 

Samuel Felix:

It all goes down to we are as a church, as a ministry, as DNA, we are a ministry of communication period and with that we should be strategic in how we do that, according to our times, in a very proper way, creative way.

Luke Allen:

Doing what Make people think, to not only spread the gospel around the world, to all the nations, but our mission also includes to be the hands and feet of God, to transform the nations, to increasingly reflect the truth, goodness and beauty of God's kingdom. Tragically, the church has largely neglected this second part of her mission and today most Christians have little influence on their surrounding cultures. Join us on this podcast and rediscover what it means for each of us to disciple the nations and to create Christ-honoring cultures that reflect the character of the living God. And just before we start today, I wanted to let you guys know that unfortunately, we experienced some technical difficulties during this recording and because of that, one of the audios is not as clear as usual. So I hope that's not too much of a distraction for you during this conversation and thank you for your patience.

Scott Allen:

Well, welcome again to another episode of Ideas have Consequences. This is the podcast of the Disciple Nations Alliance. I'm Scott Allen, I'm the president of the DNA and I am joined today by my friends and team members Luke Allen, dwight Vogt and our special guest today is Samuel Felix joining us from Brazil. Samuel, it's great to see you, it's great to have you on.

Samuel Felix:

It's a great honor to be here to have this conversation with friends and people that I admire, so it's awesome to be here.

Scott Allen:

And Samuel is a yeah, as he mentioned a friend of ours and a friend of the DNAs, but he is what I would call a digital content creator. He's incredibly creative. His specialty is digital animation and I think it's not a stretch to say that he's in kind of a world-class category. Kind of a world-class category. He's worked doing short video animations for a wide variety of companies around the world, including some that you have heard of, like Red Bull, and you know Samuel, you can tell us more about some of your background in that. But he's helped the DNA of LATE with a lot of our digital content, videos and just the communication of biblical worldview messages. We consider him to be a true person.

Scott Allen:

Today we're going to talk with Samuel. We want to have kind of a wide-ranging discussion around topics of communication digital communication, internet communication, how to effectively communicate important biblical truths. But we also just want to talk about the role of the Church and the voice that we should have in the culture around. You know, during this time of real intense kind of culture wars, where you've got groups that are working hard to shape the culture and to move our nations in really unbiblical ways, how do we respond as the Church. To that I'd like to start. Samuel, just tell us you know a couple of things. Number one just give us a little bit more of your background and the work that you do. And then, secondly, how did you connect with the DNA and kind of your DNA story? If you will so, if you don't mind, just kind of talking a little bit about yourself and then your connection to the DNA.

Samuel Felix:

My name is Samuel Felix, I'm 38 years old, I'm married to Carolina, my beautiful, lovely wife, and we have four kids Bernardo, rafael, brisa and Cora. Rafael Brisa and Cora and yeah, it goes way back in the days. I grew up, you know, with a regular family here in Brazil. But I remember having some issues with school because I just couldn't learn the same way. I couldn't stand in a class and sit for hours watching someone speak. All my thing was, you know, draw and making things with my hands, glue paper and all that kind of stuff. And with that I had some serious problems with feeding everywhere, anywhere actually, because I just couldn't, you know, have the same regular life as everyone else. And with that I had some problems at school, problems with my parents. My parents broke up when I was around 11-something, my parents broke up when I was around 11-something and then my mom had to work and I should attend school by myself as a kid, but I just didn't. I couldn't have the patience to sit down and, just as I said, watch the class. But but I realized that I I had, um, whenever I had something interesting that captured my attention, I would go in a very intense way. So that's when I was.

Samuel Felix:

When I was a teenager, I got involved with music playing guitar and I that's everything I would do and then I got invited to go to church when I was around 13. And that became my thing. Everything that was involved was something with playing in a church. And then, because I didn't have the regular education you know, I didn't go through that. I was always looking for something to be part of having that degree and the options on my community at the time was quite limited to, you know, going to that same list of of choices. And and then I heard when Wyman for the first time and I we often would have missionaries visiting the church to tell about the, you know, on a conference or to telling testimonies about the mission field, and I remember that really captured my attention. And when I was I can't really remember my age at the time, but I got involved somehow with.

Samuel Felix:

This was a YWAM outreach in my hometown and then I saw people from other nationalities and I really got excited about it to the point that I decided that's what I want to do, I want to go to this mission field, I want to become a missionary. And then in 2007, I did the DTS, which is the Disciple Training School. That's the first training you do when you join YWAM and that really changed my life training you do when you join YWAM and that really changed my life. And by that time I decided to work with Children at Risk Mercy Ministry and I remember that I had the need to communicate what I was doing.

Samuel Felix:

After the DTS I was trying to find ways to raise financial support and communicate what I was doing with those ministries and I started doing small little videos to promote the work I was doing. But I got so involved with this, this, and that became a huge dream. I was like how awesome would be to live doing, you know, productions like this, but I only had, you know, very, very small resources, like a small camera it was. I still remember there was a mini DVDvd camera which the the image was horrible.

Samuel Felix:

But I I I got um a computer laptop as a gift from um, a friend of mine from dts. He sent me from states. That was my first equipment and I just fall in love with that, and to the point that I got in crisis because I supposed to be working with the mercy ministries and slums and all that kind of stuff. But I just couldn't get out of that communication environment. I was so in big passion for that. Some nights I couldn't sleep. I was just watching training, online trainings.

Samuel Felix:

And then I still remember the leader of the ministry. He invited me to talk. He was from he's from England, a great guy, and he said hey, you know you're really good on working with the Mercy Ministry. We are so glad to have you here, but you're way better working with communication. So just don't put this weight on your shoulders that you have to be doing this. I think you should get what God is giving to you as a gift and just follow this. You know your passion for that Because I believe God's giving you that and that was. You know. He took this huge piano out of my bag, huge piano out of my back From that moment.

Samuel Felix:

I remember just following that passion. I don't say that I was following my heart. If it was because of my heart, I wouldn't do anything of that because I just couldn't believe everything was so expensive at that time. That because I just couldn't believe everything was so expensive at that time. So I remember I had some problems with financial, my financial situation in Wyoming because I couldn't raise support and church. My church said if you become a pastor, we will support you, but not with communication. So I left the YWAM base in 2009, and I started looking for work and that time I was one year married and everything I knew was about making videos. That I learned by myself.

Luke Allen:

And Samuel, didn't you meet Darrow while you were in YWAM? Was that when you were in New Zealand right For the first time?

Samuel Felix:

Yeah, no, no, it was in Brazil, my second year at YWAM. I didn't meet Darrow, actually. Yeah, I saw him in Belo Horizonte, very briefly, in one night. He was speaking about the maternal heart of God. That was the first time I saw it and it blew my mind. It was just one night. I said this is amazing, never heard of that concept. And then the next year, 2008, I did the community development school with the Mercy Ministry and we studied the Disciple Nations book and that really got my attention and it really changed the way I was thinking. That was the first time and you're right, luke, that was the first time I had contact with DNA content, my first contact.

Samuel Felix:

And I remember having a crisis when I got to that point where you learn that we live in an open universe created by God, that resources are not something, are not lack of money, but it's a lack of ideas. It's the limitation of our beliefs. And that was the answer for my entire family, because I grew up with that belief, false belief that my mom used to say that it's a Brazilian. I'll try to translate it. It says the water only runs out to the sea and that it's related to the idea.

Samuel Felix:

It's about resources. You only have. You only have resources. It's pretty much like the water only runs out to the sea, which is, if you are not born with that stream of income, you're going to be poor for the rest of your life. It's just a dead tree, far away from the water, and I remember growing up with that belief and then I realized wait a minute. Romans 12, 2, which is my favorite Bible verse, says that you have to be renewed, be transformed by the renewing of your mind by the renewing of your mind, and that was really amazing to see that Bible verse in a different way, which is wait a minute.

Samuel Felix:

In order to experiment the perfect will of God, I have to renew my mind. That's the verse following that one that really got my attention, and the whole thing about it. So what is available for everyone, it's also available for me. Not because I didn't go to the regular education system it doesn't mean that I can't have a good future, build a family. So I remember having my mind blue at that point and I started believing in myself, actually that I could do something.

Scott Allen:

Joe, I'll just cut you off just briefly. Samuel, that lie, the way you expressed it there, that resources are fixed, they're limited and I have no access to them, is probably the, in some ways, the biggest one that the DNA has had to face around the world. And it just. It's such a terrible lie, it holds so many people back, and so your testimony is encouraging to me, because I've heard something similar from so many people this idea that our resources I mean for sure you know the family that you're born into there's these external circumstances. I don't mean to minimize those, but at the end of the day, it's the mind, it's these ideas, the imagination and work that you know. This is what the Bible teaches, you know, or the source of resources. That's such a liberating truth for people. Yeah.

Scott Allen:

Anyways, go ahead.

Samuel Felix:

Yeah, yeah. It doesn't mean that we're going to go from the race of life. Everyone is starting at the same point. It's not that, once you understand that, you're going to be able to run equally. And life is not fair. This world is not fair, it's a falling world. We need to be aware of that every day. But that doesn't mean that I have the rights to claim, you know, the same opportunities. It means that now I have the light, which I can you know with God. With that revelation, which I can you know with God, with that revelation, I can build a different future for me, for my family, for the community around me. And that's where the change comes from. I believe, once we have the light, the revelation of the word becoming alive, that we are not who we absorb from our culture, our environment. We are what God says we are.

Samuel Felix:

We are image, and that means the other thing was we are co-creators. When I first heard that, it was like so we just don't accept what is for us. Like you know, the water runs out to the sea. We are called creators. We can come up with ideas, we can suggest new things, and that was amazing and I never heard of that, never heard, I never read anything like that. Um, coming from you know a biblical church, but it's not that they are wrong on what they teach, it's just I think it's limited.

Scott Allen:

Yes.

Samuel Felix:

Because I'm not saying we have all the answers, but sometimes we take for granted on what people believe. Yeah, it's like I don't know when I heard that If it was Daryl, I cannot remember but once I heard that you need to rebuild the core foundation where you put the faith on. Otherwise, you're going to believe in Christ, you're going to accept Jesus, but you don't change the foundations, the core foundation where you build all your ideas and your beliefs, and if you don't allow God in his world to transform it as it's supposed to be, we're gonna be just, we're gonna have the same life, the same limited ideas, going to heaven with, you know, just focusing.

Scott Allen:

Well, focusing, yeah, I mean is really you're talking about the core of why we exist, and that is because in the Church there's been this false idea that our mission is to proclaim a message, the message of salvation through Jesus Christ, and that's the end of it. Now, that's as you said. That's not wrong, that's absolutely right and that's foundational. But if the idea is that we have no other message to proclaim than that, you are just talking about how your life was changed by thinking about resources and creativity from a biblical vantage point, and nobody had ever bothered to teach you about that, because the Church said well, we don't even have anything to say about that. You know that has nothing to do with the gospel.

Scott Allen:

Well, no, the message that we have to share is much bigger than a message of salvation. It's an entire worldview that makes sense of everything— resources, creativity, human nature. And when people understand that and can start living by that, it changes their lives, it changes their communities. Things change, nations are discipled. So I just need to put a little commercial into what you're saying there for our ministry, because we need to think of everything biblically, from the framework of the biblical worldview. Yeah, we'll talk more about that when we talk about communications here in a little bit Dwight, I think I cut you off.

Dwight Vogt:

I was just sitting there listening to you, samuel, and I'm thinking, yeah, you're exhibit A of somebody who had a worldview aha that didn't know that he needed an aha. Because he didn't know he thought a certain way and yet he did. And it's really hard even for me to grasp that sometime, that there are assumptions we live by that we don't even know. They're so deep that we just live by them until we're challenged by something else we don't even know. We know what we know.

Scott Allen:

Yeah, so the assumptions that we have about work, about resources, about education or any number of things, if they don't get changed you know, we get these assumptions from somewhere, we get them from the broader culture If they're not, if we're not discipled, if they're not changed, then what we are essentially is double-minded. As Christians. We, you know, we have Christian minds about salvation and certain things, but when it comes to other things work and whatnot we think in the same way that the culture thinks.

Samuel Felix:

It's very sad. Today I have many friends from the States, from other countries with this Protestant background and it's so sad to look, from a person who comes from you know another background, very different one, and just to observe how the assumptions people do on the platforms they live by. You know like it's so sad they don't see the shoulders of who came before them to build that society, that the access to resources, the access to technology to you know security, you know I was just telling my the company I still work for in New Zealand, the company I still work for in New Zealand. I just took a picture of my wall in the house I live in today and we do have an electric fence to protect the house from robbers and crimers and from other countries. That sounds weird. That's how it is here and people take for granted, like it's so sad that this generation they don't value what they have. You know, especially in North America, who has this big voice, who creates culture, export culture and behaviors to the rest of the world, and it's so sad. It's just a point.

Samuel Felix:

The other two things I remember that really got my attention and I had other aha moments was the idea of development. Other aha moments was the idea of development. We were created in our lives was to develop, not just be born, you know, and die, otherwise we wouldn't live such long years. We just, you know. Except it doesn't go to heaven, but we live here for decades, some people century. So that means something. And I remember Daryl teaching about. I think I saw that book again, I cannot exactly remember, or if it was one of the lectures, I can't exactly remember, but it was about how the Bible starts with the garden and finish with the city and the idea that even Jesus had to grow in knowledge wisdom in Luke 2, 522, if I'm not mistaken.

Scott Allen:

Yeah, that was, yeah, wisdom, stature and favor with god yeah, yeah, yeah development of jesus right yeah yeah, I was.

Samuel Felix:

that means that we we are not just to accept what. Whatever life gives us, we should develop. We should be, you know, smart and develop new ideas and new projects, new solutions, and that glorifies God because we are co-creators, that's right. I remember that time thinking about, you know, like when we mix colors and we show when we are kids Sometimes my kids does that they do that mix one color one, or they draw something and they show to me like they have discovered something here, and I think that's what we should do just mix the colors and show back to God hey, you gave me something and I co-created and I came up with another result. That just really glorifies him. That's what we're supposed to do. Amen.

Dwight Vogt:

So that's what you do as an animator. Yeah, I see it, I see your work, samuel, and you do that, you do that every day, and it's really, really good.

Scott Allen:

Thank you. Yeah, Samuel is a world-class animator. Samuel, just to give our listeners some context, what are some of the companies that you've worked for creating kind of digital animation?

Samuel Felix:

Coca-Cola, red Bull, some huge investment companies in Australasia, asia. I've done work for different studios, you know, in New Zealand, australia, asia, united States.

Scott Allen:

Yeah, I cannot exactly remember each one, I just wanted you to share a little of that, just so the audience has a sense of just the scope of your work and the quality of your work that's gained the attention of some really large corporations and so we're always thrilled when we have an opportunity to work with you really the lead creator on a lot of our kind of video animations. Luke, do you want to share a little bit about that? I?

Luke Allen:

mean, yeah, it's an honor to work with you, Samuel, because I watch a lot of short animation type videos and I've never seen anyone that matches your level, so I'm always just shocked that we can have you working with us on the team.

Luke Allen:

And one one thing that you were speaking you were talking about worldviews that we come from, that we're just, you know, absorb that are wrong is one thing that I think a lot of people in the States think is you know, in order to make it to the level that you have as a professional, you need to go through all the formal education, and then you need to go and get your graduate, and so on and so forth. I'm all for education, but you know you had a formal education, but you're.

Luke Allen:

You had a different learning style that didn't exactly work in that system, and then yet you didn't let that stop you and you just you recognize you are a co-creator and you're an agent of change and you can learn, and I don't I mean, I don't think you went to college, but you've self-taught yourself all of this and you've made it this far, which is really cool to see just how God can work through anybody. Thank you.

Samuel Felix:

Yeah, it's awesome. I'm honored to partner with you guys with all the work we're doing. Yeah.

Samuel Felix:

You know, I think education if you allow me to make a comment, because sometimes I'm invited to speak on college I think about three months ago, four months ago, I was invited to this private university here in the city where I'm living and I talked about the pathway that I took for the professional pathway actually, and I didn't have the opportunity and even the patience or the mind to attend to the formal education. But that doesn't mean that I've never studied. I think I have to study more because I don't have anything ready, you know, collected, separated in one particular order to study. So I have to build the structure first in order to consume that content and learn from it. So it's pretty much like the idea of job.

Samuel Felix:

The idea of job we all call to learn as we all call to work. But that doesn't mean that we have to have a job to work. Sometimes you apply the code on a job regularly, Sometimes you have a business. You know, I think it's a different platform that we just applied the calling to work as we are called to learn and develop ourselves.

Scott Allen:

Yeah, I totally agree with that, samuel, and it's just so encouraging to hear how Darrow in particular, and the teaching of the DNA, has had such an impact on your thinking and you know just again the joy of working with you and Luke. Maybe at the bottom of this podcast episode we can share some links to encourage our viewers or listeners to see some of Samuel's terrific work there. Viewers or listeners to see some of Samuel's terrific work there.

Luke Allen:

Throughout the ages, cultures have pivoted between two understandings of the sexes Men and women are equal and therefore they are the same or interchangeable, or men and women are different and their differences are exploited to falsely claim that some people are superior to others. But what if there was another option? What if the true biblical understanding rooted in the Trinity provided a foundational view for the sexes when unity and equality is possible without uniformity and difference and diversity between men and women is celebrated without superiority? In an age where views about men and women have divided the church and the culture, the Grand Design offers an opportunity for everyone to discover, with fresh insights, all that it means to be made in the image of God, both male and female. Take your first step by signing up for this free video course today at quorumdeocom, or you can head to the episode page linked in the show notes to learn more.

Scott Allen:

Yeah, samuel, you know, one of the things we wanted to talk to you about is communication.

Scott Allen:

This is an area of expertise for you, and particularly communication in really contentious times that we're living in right now. You know there's, I think, for the church in the United States, especially in the post-COVID years we've become much more aware of. You know just the fact that you've got forces now at work in the culture around anything related to sexuality. But also politically, there's so much censorship now that we're seeing You've got a group of people that have a lot of power and influence, who are really determined to take our cultures in a particular direction, to take our cultures in a particular direction. You know they're not a positive direction, not a biblical direction, but they're very determined and they're having their way in a lot of ways. Tell us a little bit about what's going on in Brazil right now, because I want to talk with you about how we as the Church respond. How do we communicate you about how we as the church respond? How do we communicate, you know, in this really challenging time of culture war? So tell us a little bit about what's happening in Brazil.

Samuel Felix:

Yeah, it's quite challenging even for me to formulate my position and answer, because we go in through the process of, you know, censorship and you cannot touch on some certain subjects, as you know, even post some words. You get, you know, your content shut down and and the rise of the power from Supreme Court and you know, the Congress not having a voice, the opposite, politically speaking, the opposition of the actual government, you know, got censored.

Scott Allen:

So it's a very so we're talking about yeah, politically since the last election, you have a kind of a far left, kind of almost Marxist root. Prime minister, who's come in with the backing of your Supreme Court? And with that there's been a consolidation kind of a consolidation of power, so that anyone that opposes this regime is being silenced, and even threatened with jail am. I correct about some of that yeah, you're completely right.

Samuel Felix:

Even though most of the media, as it is in the States, they will tell the opposite, which? Is very common.

Scott Allen:

So the media is kind of siding with the regime's narrative.

Samuel Felix:

Yeah, I say it politically, but that extends to other areas like media, social media, what you are allowed to say, what you are allowed to formulate as an idea, what are you allowed to formulate as an idea? It can be, you know, recognized as some, you know, hate speech or any kind of that. You have to be very aware of what you say. And it's interesting because what I hear from Christians and Christian leaders not all of them, actually it's quite interesting to the fact that if you try to position yourself against it, it's the same thing of having a political far-right position, which I don't agree with.

Samuel Felix:

I think we are all affected by politicians, but it's very related to the cultural war we are living in, because everyone is taking sides, and I like what Daryl described as what should be our position. We are not divided by left and right, it's more like up and down. So we should take biblical positions. So we should take biblical positions. And the other thing that I'm quite concerned of is that some Christians say, which is right, you know, god didn't lose the control, god is in control, jesus is going to reign. But that also sometimes people understand that we should be quiet, we shouldn't do anything. We should be, you know, take care of your life. God's in control and just let him do what he can do, because we cannot do anything.

Scott Allen:

Otherwise we're going to yeah.

Samuel Felix:

I really don't agree with that. And in another word, in another hand, I don't know what it should be. And in another word, in another hand, I don't know what it should be. I still struggle with the right action, for that, you know, because of course we cannot put all our expectations and hope on men. But that doesn't mean that as a church, we should be silent and just wait on God's control, because he will do. I think we should be, you know, as we are co-creators. We should stir up within ourselves to come up with a biblical position to respond to everything that's going on, not just accept this is fatalism. Fatalism, that's right, fatalism that's going on. Not just accept this is fatalism.

Scott Allen:

Fatalism, that's right. Fatalism, that's right. No, I totally agree, samuel, and I think you're right. I think we see the same thing here in the United States. There's a lot of reasons for the church to kind of keep its mouth shut, stay on the sidelines, not engage, and there's a lot of that. You know that's happening right now, and I think one of the big areas of confusion—I've seen this a lot of late—is just as you were saying, you know well, god's in control, so we don't, you know. So what's implied is we don't need to worry about what we do. We can just go on with our lives as normal and kind of ignore what's happening in the world around us, not get engaged, not stick our heads up, because God's in control. I think there's a lot of confusion, and there shouldn't be, in my view, because if you look biblically, yeah, of course God is sovereign and he's in control, but he's made us as human beings, as you said, co-creators, as people that have a voice and have freedom and make choices, and our choices matter. We also have a hand in shaping history and culture, and so our decisions matter. We have to be active. That's the way God made us. He didn't make us, you know, like the animals, we are human beings, so we have to take our responsibility and I think you see this all through the Scriptures. I'm just thinking right now of the story of David and Goliath. Right, I mean God was sovereign, right, I mean, you know, clearly God had his way, but David had to pick up the stone and he had to go down and do his work, and all that was based on a lot of training that he had to do in these early days of his life. So it's always that way. So it would be wrong for us to think, oh, god's in control, I do nothing or it's all up to me. I've often thought, samuel, right now we're in.

Scott Allen:

I've called it a kind of a 1930s Germany moment where, in 1930s in Germany, you had a really radically anti-Christian ideology emerging in a Christian nation and the Church didn't respond rightly to that moment. You know, it kept its head down, it just hoped that, you know, just preaching the gospel. They would often say things like that we just need to preach the gospel and not get involved in the culture. But we look back at that and say how could the Church have allowed the Nazis to gain control and all that flowed from that, the Holocaust and these massive deaths from the war. So there's a time that the Church does need to speak up, and I do think we're. You know, I don't think it's a stretch to say in many of our countries we're approaching that, because the ideologies that we're facing aren't that different. They're virulently, you know, anti-christian, and they are very intent on imposing their will. So then, the question is what do we do? How do we respond? What are your thoughts?

Samuel Felix:

I think my thoughts are we should be smart and strategic. It makes me think of the Jesus way to communicate. Sometimes people say, how do you come up with such ideas and stuff? But if you observe, jesus had the perfect way to communicate according to the moment, according to the situation, and sometimes we just want to say whatever we want to say, because we are right and we have something to say Jesus moments like when they brought up the woman who caught up with prostitution, you know, and the Bible says that he was writing down the sand right With his fingers, and I don't know if it's right.

Samuel Felix:

I don't want to make a theology here, but it's just interesting to observe. I read somewhere some author said that whenever you, you know, if you don't think of an action, if you're about to do something wrong and you don't think you're going to do it, but if you stop for around 10 seconds, you're not going to do it, you're going to think twice right before you do something wrong. So, combining to what he was doing, everyone was in a hurry to what he was doing. Everyone was in a hurry, you know, they were right before doing something really aggressive to the woman and Jesus was writing down with his fingers, drawing something I don't know. Who knows?

Samuel Felix:

But they also said that he was trying to make people think twice during the time he was writing down hey, calm down. And then he asked the question If whoever don't have seen just go on, throw the stone. And that makes me think. He read the situation. He observed, he saw what was going on in order to respond the right way to make people think, and I think that's what we should do. It all goes down to we are that's how I believe it all goes down to. We are a ministry of as a church, as a ministry as DNA, we are a ministry of communication Period and with that, we should be strategic in how we do that, according to our times, in a very proper way, creative way, doing what Make people think. Because, if you observe, to the.

Scott Allen:

Okay, let me just see if I understand what you're saying, samuel, because I like it. What I'm hearing you say is okay. Being silent is not the right choice here. Just kind of keeping our heads down and not communicating, or just communicating the gospel message and forget what's happening in the culture, like that's not a good choice. On the other hand, just kind of lashing out, you know, without a lot of thought or care, is also wrong. So we need to speak, but we need to be careful and wise and there needs to be what we say needs to be appropriate for the moment. Am I catching right, Samuel, on this?

Samuel Felix:

Yeah, but it would be a little bit more than that, which is, as I just said, we need to make people think within our communication. Does it make sense?

Dwight Vogt:

Well, when I hear you say that, Samuel, I hear Jesus wasn't about to win an argument. He was about to change people's way of thinking. He wanted to change the way they saw the world and the way they saw him. And so the question is, how do you change minds? And you're saying we need to make people think well I'm.

Samuel Felix:

I don't say that this is. It's probably a bit more easier for me because I work with that daily. But, um, whenever you you have a good idea, you get people's attention. Something creative, something that's different, different from what people are expecting. You make the mind active to consider. That's what I try to do with my communication. That's why I bother so many people hey, there's something very powerful here. That's what I felt when I read the Romans 12 too. I saw something different from what I was used to and it made me think about what was going on with my life and the way I structured my beliefs. So when I say make people think, it's make people consider what was going on related to that right idea we are just proposing.

Scott Allen:

Because one thing is Dero sometimes talks about teaching for the aha, and I hear you saying something similar. We're not just teaching content, but we're trying to get people's paradigms to shift, and that's a different kind of goal, right? How do I help break through that paradigm that they themselves don't often see, because they just are living in it, and get them to question it, get them to start thinking in a different direction?

Samuel Felix:

Yeah, exactly, exactly. Because one thing is just having you know. You have sometimes what I say, what I call active mind, passive mind. What is the purpose of most of the media content for entertainment nowadays? Passive is to get the passive mind to just be passive learning to keep it. To keep it passive, yeah, to keep it passive to keep it flowing the way it is. That's how things are. Just turn on the tv and be passive and learn from it, and sometimes you get ideas that you don't know where you come.

Scott Allen:

They come from but the ideas, yeah, it's, it's actually it, you're right, it's to kind of it's weaponizing this passivity, isn't it to get these ideas across? Yeah, I mean right. I mean it doesn't want you just passive, it wants you to think the way it wants, but it's going to take advantage of the fact that you're lazy and passive and it's going to use that.

Samuel Felix:

And sometimes we get the same state of mind within our services, within our teaching lectures, and we just throw out content and people don't get change. I'm not saying we have the power to transform minds, because that's God's Word, that's the work of God's's word. We don't have that power, but maybe we can have ideas and strategies to make people think, to active their mind, to consider in a different way about some specific ideas. That's why I love to, you know, come up with new creative ideas about a subject matter, Like one image that make people think different. I will activate their mind to hey, I'm going to watch it differently. It's like a slap.

Dwight Vogt:

How do you?

Samuel Felix:

I mean.

Scott Allen:

No, that's right, and go ahead, dwight.

Dwight Vogt:

Yeah, Samuel, I'm listening to you and I'm thinking, okay, you do this professionally, you do this for a living and you do it with images. But I'm thinking you're probably talking to us, thinking you could you non-animators could learn from me in terms of how to make people think, and I'm wondering what is it that you do to? How do you come up with the image, the idea that slaps the head or slaps the mind? I mean, what do you do? How do you get there?

Samuel Felix:

Well, it all starts with something that's pleasing to see, it's creative, it's interesting and there's something to consider, not just a beautiful image, it's the idea behind that makes people. Do you remember that image I built, with the man carrying this huge wood on his back called work? Whenever people see that, they instantly think that's my work, I hate my job, that's the burden I carry, that's the idea I have about work. And then the next image it's a question related to that image that makes them to consider even more so. It's, you know, helping them to think different about a specific idea. And I think Jesus did that a lot with parables, you know. Yeah.

Samuel Felix:

With his preaching, the way he communicates.

Samuel Felix:

It was different from what people were used to.

Samuel Felix:

So when I say we should communicate, of course we should preach, we should teach, but we could be more creative and strategic within what we do when it comes to how we communicate, because, especially nowadays, it goes way more than just what we have to say. It's how we say and how we put things together in order to get people's attention, because there's a fight, too many voices around, too many voices saying too many things, and most of the things are pleasing to this passive mind, you know. So how do we build this strategy to be effective with what we say, what we communicate, and that's the purpose of my life. I would say that's what I I do for living and that's what I would do for the rest of my life, because it's so pleasing to me personally when people, someone gets what I'm trying to say, you know like hey, this is interesting. I never thought of that. I remember when we were in Panama doing the Global Forum, dna Vishal mentioned something, just a different word, that gave me a very different perspective of what's happening?

Scott Allen:

Vishal Mangalwadi, who was our speaker at that Panama. Dna Global Forum.

Samuel Felix:

He changed from Protestant Reformation to Protestant Revolution. That's a different context, different perspective.

Scott Allen:

Yes.

Samuel Felix:

You know, there was a revolution of thoughts and ideas going on.

Scott Allen:

Well, that's a really good example because, yeah, when you use the word Reformation, you kind of keep it within the walls of the church and theology, but when you use the word revolution, it's broader than just church and theology.

Samuel Felix:

We're talking about society and culture there, that's right.

Scott Allen:

That's right yeah.

Samuel Felix:

That's a good example. Yeah, being strategic in what we do makes a huge difference. Considering on not again, not how, what we I have, what I have to say, but how I'm gonna say that what's the most effective way. I'm not saying that what I do is the most effective way, but it's, you know, it's the giving the right importance to it on how we do, because we can get different results out of that, and Daryl does that really well.

Scott Allen:

Yeah, no, he's, he's really a master at it, and but you know he understands that this is important, that for people to grow in their faith and for things to change in a family, community, nation, there needs to be this shift in paradigm that people are functioning from a set of assumptions and worldview, assumptions that are often wrong, misleading, unbiblical. They don't even know it. They don't need content, they need to have those assumptions challenged, and when they can change, that's the beginning point of true revolutionary change. But you have to have—I hear you saying the same thing, samuel, and I sometimes still wonder why is it that we— it seems like people don't—a lot of Christians don't think of that as an important goal or even understand that as a goal? We talk a lot about discipleship, teaching, you know, just kind of layer upon layer of content, but not this idea that we have to actually think differently. I agree with you.

Scott Allen:

Jesus really did seem to understand this. He understood that people were in a—they had all sorts of misperceptions and that he needed to shift their thinking in a fundamental way, and he often taught that way. You know, I think your example of the woman caught in adultery is a really good one, right, you know everyone would have expected him to come out and start condemning adultery, which of course, is unbiblical. But you know he wanted to. You know he needed to challenge their assumptions about mercy and forgiveness and things like that. So their assumptions about mercy and forgiveness- and things like that.

Scott Allen:

So anyways, yeah, but my question is yeah, it seems like that's still not—I wonder why that's not seen as a—maybe it's as simple as you know. We think as Christians hey, we just have a gospel message to preach and that's it nothing—it's just maybe a lack of worldview thinking that, you know, we're not used to thinking and that's it. It's just maybe a lack of worldview thinking that we're not used to thinking in terms of worldviews.

Luke Allen:

I think also it's—I agree with what you're saying, dad, but it's this idea of we need to change the way we live. Changing your thinking will change the way you live. Yes, but when you just say change your thinking, people tend to interpret that as it's just in my head. Or, like Samuel was saying earlier, we need to affect the foundation. If we build a new building on top and the foundation doesn't change, how much actually changed? Right, even the term worldview sometimes. Sometimes I have a hard time with it because it sounds, it sounds like just seeing the world a different way, when what we're trying to do is, yes, see the world a different way, but also live in the world a different way.

Scott Allen:

It's a lifestyle, it's a way of living, it's because I just have consequences. You see this, yeah, podcast let me put it that way, I'm just joking.

Dwight Vogt:

Back in the days, Back in the day.

Samuel Felix:

I used to give some worldview seminars in some churches when I was in Wyoming. Right after I got you know I learned from DNA and community development and stuff and I even that time, during that time, I had that concern. I need to make them think, I need to make them consider, otherwise they'll just hear some blah, blah, blah and nothing's going to help. And I used to ask those simple questions to activate their mind, people's mind. I used to ask that what if Adam and Eve didn't fall, didn't eat the fruit, how would we be right now? How we would be right now? Where should we be right now? And 95%, the other 5% would be quiet but most of the people would say we would be in the garden and I would compliment. So you think we should be hugging lions and playing? With monkeys.

Samuel Felix:

That's what we should be and they would, shouldn't we? So you see, the environment change from assumptions to some. Hey, there's something going on here. He's confronting my beliefs and I would compliment. Well, I'm going to say what I believe, I think we should be.

Samuel Felix:

If I'm not making a theology here, I have to make it very clear, Because I do believe that God's plan was redemption right, but it's more like make people think and it's more from ideas perspective, my discussions during that time, I would say I believe that maybe we should be flying cars with way more high technology than we are right now, Because God created us to develop.

Samuel Felix:

Then I come up with my subject, which was development. You know, I give people context to think, to confront their assumptions about some specific subject. It's a different way to communicate. The other question I would say I would ask them was like, especially here in Brazil, where it's very often in would ask them was like, especially here in Brazil, where it's very often in some certain areas and communities, you see a lot of rubbish in the streets, on the streets, and I would ask something like do you think that if Jesus would come here to this service tonight, we would see that amount of rubbish right next to the church in the street. What he would have to say about that rubbish, the trash. That's how we say it in the States trash.

Samuel Felix:

Rubbish is in New Zealand and people would think I'm not saying. I have the answer right. Again, I'm not making a new theology about trash in the streets and what Jesus would do, but I'm just coming up with something that makes them think, hey, if the kingdom affects all the areas, we should be responsible for the trash right next to our church, Because that's not Jesus' way. So I do think on the power of the Holy Spirit, because that's his work on changing people's mind and heart, right. But I do believe on our cooperation on wake people's mind when we communicate effectively, when we come up with new ways and new ideas to activate people's minds from this passive culture which is horrible right now, and we can see great things coming out of that.

Dwight Vogt:

Wow. Let me make one comment here, because you're making me think, samuel, thank you.

Dwight Vogt:

I know you want to make me think so you made me think. I don't know if I got a paradigm shift yet or not, but I was watching a political ad just yesterday. A congressman in our state is running to be reelected. He's on the political left and he reelected. He's on the political left and he served in Afghanistan. He was a great war hero kind of guy and he's got good character. He's just a really seems like a really good man, but he's pro-choice.

Dwight Vogt:

And as I was watching I thought what would it take for him to recognize human life in a child, an unborn child? And it just crossed my mind I wonder what possible idea or what. And you're asking that question right now. But it's interesting because I was thinking what could we do? What can we say? What visual could we give that would? Because once his mind would shift, I think he would be pro-life. But it's how to shift that really core understanding of life. And you're driving us to say we can do it, but we have to have the Spirit of God help us. And I think that's a good admonition to the DNA. I mean, we're thinking now about how do we redo our training in a new way to reach new minds and new hearts and new ideas. And it's like what do we have to do? How can we make people think and I hope anyway, pray for us, samuel, or be a part of the answer?

Scott Allen:

I'm here, I'm here, or be a part of the answer. I'm here, I'm here, you know, I think that's right and it's not easy. I think to do this well, you have to understand largely the way people are thinking. What are those assumptions? You know that has to be kind of understood. And what's wrong with them? What change do they not see? Wrong with them? What change do they not see? And you know, to use your example, Dwight, the God-given, precious, you know worth and dignity of the unborn child.

Scott Allen:

I mean what does it take to get them to see that truth? How do you help to break through? So yeah, you're right, samuel, and that gets, I think, back to really what we need to speak. The Church has a message, but it's a message about everything about you know, about what does it mean to be human, about what is work, about all these things. But we have to help people to have a shift in their paradigm so that they can begin to think biblically. And I just you know this is the message, this is the ministry of the church, isn't it? It's not again. It's not just getting people into the pews, getting their hearts redeemed through the message of salvation and the cross. It's helping them to think biblically and put off these false assumptions.

Samuel Felix:

So, anyways, I can give you another example.

Scott Allen:

Yeah, final comments as we wrap up here.

Samuel Felix:

Yeah, I can give you another example of how to confront thinking. There was this guy in my church and he was about to get married and because I'm married 15 years, have four kids, some youth people come up to me and hey, I would like to have a word with you, could you give me advice on marriage and stuff? And I asked him what are your concerns? And he said you know what. It's a regular income. So what's going on? And I said I'm a psychologist but I don't have a job. And then I asked question again. I said do you remember how the pastor prayed today for doing the offering? And he said no. I said okay, keep thinking, try to remember the way he prayed. And during that time I was activating his mind. It was really fun to watch. And he said I cannot remember he prayed exactly like this God bless those who couldn't contribute with a job. Whoever is unemployed here, help them with a job so they can contribute. Nothing wrong with that prayer, right, but it's incomplete.

Samuel Felix:

The assumption here is that you only work if you have a job. You only contribute if you have a job. You only contribute if you have a job. So I asked him do you work? He said, yeah, I'm a psychologist, so you don't have a job, but you work. And he was, yeah, so do you have clients? He said, yeah, so you don't. Here's the thing. Here's the thing we are as a man, as men, we are called to be providers, to work hard. Sometimes this principle it's applied to a job, but you do have work, you do have income. You don't need a job to be a man, to be a provider, so just get married and keep working. That's the thing. You confront the idea with reality and the principles. Because his assumption was that you only work if you have a job. You won't have resources if you have a job, you won't have resources if you have a job. And that's the majority of the Brazilians, and most people think that if you don't have a job, you don't work.

Luke Allen:

Yeah, I think of the stay-at-home mom versus working mom. The assumption there is, you're not working if you're staying at home cooking meals, helping your kids. You know working essentially all day, but you're not working.

Samuel Felix:

You're not living what God called you to be, because you don't have a job.

Scott Allen:

That's a real example, luke. Yeah, work equals a paycheck, and so if you're not getting that paycheck, you're not working.

Luke Allen:

Yeah, yeah, and I really like what you were saying, Dad, about how you have to know the assumptions that people are coming from, the worldviews that people are coming from, and if you aren't tapping into those, you know. I think a lot of this— it's hard to help people shift yeah if you don't know where they're at Exactly.

Luke Allen:

And I think when we started this discussion we were talking about more of the culture war topics.

Luke Allen:

It's a lot of times Christians want to be like I don't want to talk about culture war topics, I just want to be faithful to the word.

Luke Allen:

And what they're saying essentially is I want to avoid talking about the culture war topics and I want to just talk about the comfortable parts of the Bible or the other parts of the Bible that just aren't you know quote unquote hot topics right now and it's like but the culture war topics are, the are the topics that people are thinking about, and if you don't know how to speak into people's thinking in those topics and how much of a difference are you actually going to have?

Luke Allen:

I think of this quote I heard actually today that I really like, by Elizabeth Randall Charles, and it says If I profess with the loudest voice and the clearest exposition every portion of the truth of God, except precisely that little point to which the world and the devil are at the moment attacking, I am not confessing Christ, however boldly I may be professing Christ when the battle rages, there the loyalty of the soldier is proved. So what she's saying is if you're not speaking precisely into that little point that people are actually curious about and thinking about and where they are, but you're talking about all the rest of the Bible, then are you actually professing Christ?

Samuel Felix:

Yeah, I remember I was doing a work in an advertisement agency and there was this guy very, you know progressive and he was all about you know leftist and you know pro-choice all of that, and he was advocating arguing with me because he realized I was a Christian, pro-choice all of that, and he was advocating arguing with me because he realized I was a Christian. About you should do whatever. Make you happy. That was his point, because you don't live by rules. And in his mind what I had was a bunch of rules who was blocking me from being happy. And then I asked him a question. I said hey, you know my son.

Samuel Felix:

By that time, bernardo was one year old, I think. No, five years old, I think. And I asked him do you think it would be okay if I had sex with my kid? And he was like whoa, just tell me If I feel like what do you think? He said I think you're going too far. I said no, based on your assumptions. Whatever makes me happy, man. And then I gave him all the extreme. I was going to his platform right.

Samuel Felix:

I don't talk about that normally openly, but I was in a private that's what I'm talking about being effective in our communication. I was in a private area talking with another person, so I read the situation, I observed the situation and I asked him more extreme questions. I was confronting his sense of freedom for doing whatever please us and then, after going far and far, he was like no, I think you're going too far, that's crazy man. I said no, that's the consequences of doing whatever I want. Don't you understand that we live in a universe with universal morals established by God, and that's the best way we can live our lives? That's not rules, those are principles, universal principles that we were designed to, and that gives him another perspective of his freedom to do whatever he wants.

Samuel Felix:

You can cut that off from the podcast if you want, but it's quite aggressive, the visual. So I really believe on effective ways to communicate. You can have the same message, but the way you present it makes a whole different result on people's mind, and that's why I'm bothering all the time, whoever I talk to. Hey, let's do it, let's do that, let's make something different. Let's, because I really believe on that the power of the communication that makes people think.

Scott Allen:

Well, samuel, I would say you're really outstanding at that. Even listening to you talk today, you're always asking questions and, again, that was a technique that Jesus used a lot too. He would start with questions and, by the way, he would often end with this. I always thought this was interesting. Jesus says he who has ears to hear, let him hear. And I think that's also. I'm speaking to you something very truthfully, but I recognize a lot of people just aren't going to hear it. They're just not going to be open to hearing it. If you have ears to hear, hear it. This is the truth. Anyways, it's been such an honor to work with you, samuel and I. Just again I want to invite our listening audience to see some of Sam. So, luke, tell us how we can access some of those videos that Samuel's done such a great job on some of our core messages at the DNA. He's been working with us on those. How can people see some of those videos?

Luke Allen:

Yeah, I mean this year at the DNA. We have a lot of awesome content coming out, and the preeminent piece of that content, I would say, is what we're calling our core videos. We have already released the first one of those, and these videos essentially take all of the DNA's core teaching that we've been sharing around the world for the last 26 years and synthesizes those into these short animated clips that Samuel is ingeniously coming up with that give powerful concepts. The first one that came out is called why Worldview Matters and it explains that concept of worldview. And you know, for a lot of people that can be a new concept and a little bit of a difficult one to grasp, but through this four-minute or so animation you'll understand by the end of it why a worldview matters. And this next one that's coming out that talks about the kingdom of God and why understanding the kingdom of God matters as Christians, that one's going to be out in a couple weeks and then so on and so forth through the DNA's core teaching. So those are all coming out this year. If you want to understand what the DNA is about, watch those videos, start there, and uh, after watching all of them, they'll all be out soon, uh, you'll have a very clear understanding of what we're about and if you want to share with your friends what we're about here at the DNA, share those videos. Uh, samuel's also working on uh, working with Darrell Miller on.

Luke Allen:

A project that Samuel's really passionate about, as he mentioned earlier, is Darrell's newest book, the Grand Design Rediscovering Male and Female as the Image of God. They're taking the core concepts in that video, including the concept of the maternal heart of God that Samuel heard Darrell speak at the first time he met Darrell, and they're turning those into short animated videos as well. So that's a different series. But it's also just packed with just beautiful biblical truth presented in a beautiful way that is intriguing and interesting and thought-provoking and worth watching a thousand times. I've already watched that Maternal Heart of God video so many times.

Luke Allen:

All of these videos are out on all of our social media platforms. They're on our website, disci disciplenationsorg, and they're out on YouTube so you can find them any of those places. We'll have them linked in the show notes. As well as the Grand Design course that book we also had a course come out with it. Samuel was behind that course. It's a video discipleship course. You can find that at quorumdalecom. Samuel was the creator of that course as well, so the first thing I would recommend, though, is those core videos. I am so excited about those, and right about the time that we release this podcast, we'll be releasing the second of those core videos, so keep an eye out for that.

Scott Allen:

Well, I want to thank you, samuel, for your great work, and Luke, you too. These guys are working really in tandem right now, both on the content creation side, but also on the ways on getting it out as widely as we can, and that's where you guys can help us too. So, as you see, these videos come across your social media feed or on our website, share them with the people that you're connected with online so we can get these ideas out and have as many parishes as possible. We've got to get the church thinking biblically and engaging biblically on really all of these topics, including these really vital ones that we're dealing with today.

Scott Allen:

Samuel, may God bless you. Thank you for the time today and for your work, and it's just an honor to know you, and we'll look forward to having you on again at some point, and in the meantime, we'll continue to pray for your beautiful country. We love Brazil. Thank you, and I want to thank all of our listeners. Thank you again for listening to another episode of Ideas have Consequences. This is the podcast of the Disciple Nations Alliance.

Luke Allen:

Thank you for joining us for this episode with Samuel Felix. If you're new to the show, I hope you are able to join us for our next couple of episodes, as we have a great lineup of guests coming up, including Pastor Teohashi from Brazil, catherine Gallagher from Go Strategic and John Stonestreet from the Colson Center. If you'd like to make sure not to miss any of those episodes, just head over to the podcast app that you're currently listening on and make sure to follow this show so that you're notified every time one of our episodes comes out. Again, I would encourage you, before you forget, to watch our key short video here at the Disciple Nations Alliance, which is why Does your Worldview Matter, which is available on YouTube and is also linked directly into the show notes. Also linked in the show notes is the episode page, which includes more information about Samuel Felix and all of the other projects he has helped us on, as well as more information about the grand design rediscovering male and female as the image of God, which is our free video worldview training course, which I mentioned during the commercial today.

Luke Allen:

Ideas have consequences is the podcast of the disciple nations alliance. To learn more about our ministry, you can find us on Instagram, facebook and YouTube or on our website, which is disciplenationsorg. Thanks again for joining us. Please share the show with a friend and we hope you're able to join us here next week on Ideas have Consequences. Thank you.