Discover a vision for a culture that recognizes the innate beauty of every human life as we journey with Sami Parker of Live Action through the frontlines of pro-life advocacy. Witness firsthand how Live Action is challenging the prevailing worldviews promoting abortion, utilizing social media to spark transformative discussions that transcend the screen into the very fabric of society. The predominant narrative or story of our time does not recognize God, sees humans as mere animals, and labels unrestrained sex as a "human right." Look around; these ideas have manifested into the wasteland surrounding families, relationships, sexuality, and procreation, and the list drags on. As Christians, this pains us because we know there's a better story, a better design. One that does not make any room for harming any innocent human's life. The biblical worldview recognizes the beauty in every aspect of God's created order. But do we? Do we not only recognize God's better story but strive to consistently live in it and model it to a hurting world? This episode is a call to Christians to don the full armor of their faith, merging the Gospel's transformative power with active cultural engagement to foster a society that not only protects, but cherishes life. Let's join forces to defend the defenseless against the greatest injustices of our age and celebrate the innate beauty and truth of life through the power of storytelling and education.
Discover a vision for a culture that recognizes the innate beauty of every human life as we journey with Sami Parker of Live Action through the frontlines of pro-life advocacy. Witness firsthand how Live Action is challenging the prevailing worldviews promoting abortion, utilizing social media to spark transformative discussions that transcend the screen into the very fabric of society. The predominant narrative or story of our time does not recognize God, sees humans as mere animals, and labels unrestrained sex as a "human right." Look around; these ideas have manifested into the wasteland surrounding families, relationships, sexuality, and procreation, and the list drags on. As Christians, this pains us because we know there's a better story, a better design. One that does not make any room for harming any innocent human's life. The biblical worldview recognizes the beauty in every aspect of God's created order. But do we? Do we not only recognize God's better story but strive to consistently live in it and model it to a hurting world? This episode is a call to Christians to don the full armor of their faith, merging the Gospel's transformative power with active cultural engagement to foster a society that not only protects, but cherishes life. Let's join forces to defend the defenseless against the greatest injustices of our age and celebrate the innate beauty and truth of life through the power of storytelling and education.
We should always be prepared to present the case for life, present it gently, present it truthfully, present it in a beautiful way, because it is beautiful by nature. I think a lot more pro-lifers are becoming aware that we aren't the extreme party.
Sami Parker:That's what we're trying to be painted at very strongly, but we don't need to be timidly explaining why killing innocent human children is morally revolting. I think more of us are deciding that we're not extreme for that. You pro-abortion person are the extreme one. The onus is on you essentially to explain to me why it is morally permissible to kill thousands of innocent human children every single day in our country.
Luke Allen:Hi friends, welcome to Ideas have Consequences. The podcast of the Disciple Nations Alliance. Here on this show we examine how our mission as Christians is to not only spread the Gospel around the world, to all the nations, but our mission also includes to be the hands and feet of God, to transform the nations to increasingly reflect the truth, goodness and beauty of God's kingdom. Tragically, the Church has largely neglected this second part of her mission and today most Christians have little influence on their surrounding cultures. Join us on this podcast as we rediscover what it means for each of us to disciple the nations and to create Christ-honoring cultures that reflect the character of the living God.
Scott Allen:Welcome everybody to another episode of Ideas have Consequences. This is the podcast of the Disciple Nations Alliance. My name is Scott Allen, I'm the president of the DNA and I'm joined on this episode by my dear friends and coworkers as normal Daryl Miller, dwight Vogt, luke Allen, high Teen Good to see you guys here this morning. And we are joined by a very special guest today who we've had on before Sammy Parker. Sammy is a on-staff with Live Action, which is really one of the preeminent pro-life organizations at work in this country and around the world, and so, sammy, it's great to have you back on again. It's good to see you.
Sami Parker:Thanks for having me again. I'm really excited to be here.
Scott Allen:I'm so excited to have you back and so, yeah, today's episode we're going to get back into the all-important issue of human life and the pro-life movement, and so Sammy is kind of a person that we love to go to to kind of get a sense on what's happening in the movement and how we can help ourselves, as the DNA and kind of our associates, to be more strategic and focused and play the role we can play as a group here To further this critical movement.
Scott Allen:Sammy, just by way of kind of reintroduction for our people that maybe missed the earlier podcast been several months, but you are a young mother, graduate of Grand Canyon University. As I said, you're on staff with Live Action and I believe you're tell us a little bit. Well, I'd like to hear two things you know, tell us about Live Action and then tell us a little bit about you know what it is, what its focus is, what its mission is, and then your role there as well, if you could, because I know you're working in the area of social media, but if you could just tell us a little bit more about that, that'd be great. So yeah, take it away.
Sami Parker:Sweet yeah. So Live Action is the biggest online pro-life organization seeking to end abortion and to make America the most welcoming place in the world to raise a family. So I really do feel like Live Action started out primarily with the goal to end abortion but, like this podcast talks about, there's a lot more to that than just changing policies and making laws. It also is very important to change the culture and really make America a place where people want to raise families and have babies and get married and all that wonderful stuff. Live Action does a lot of different things.
Sami Parker:We started off with a lot of investigative work with Lila Rose, who's the founder and president. She went into Planned Parenthoods undercover when she was just a teenager and really led the way in terms of undercover journalism, and there's a lot of videos online that people can watch that really expose the truth about what's going on at abortion facilities and a lot of other things Live Action covers. But now it's primarily educational content and a lot of apologetics content content dedicated to exposing the abortion industry and really how it's just to stay in on humanity and how it's stolen obviously so many lives, but also just so many other things throughout our culture. So my contribution to Live Action is a lot of content creation. I work a lot on social media.
Sami Parker:I spend a lot of time scrolling and kind of seeing what the younger generation is up to and where their worldviews lies, and so my videos that I do with Live Action they're apologetic heavy, but they also kind of go back to our mission of exposing abortion industry behind it and also highlighting the beauty of children and motherhood and marriage. Especially now that I have more of real world experience with all of that, I can really speak to it. Before I could just say you know, have babies, trust me, it's great. And now I can really say have babies, trust me, it's great.
Scott Allen:So that's awesome. That's great, sammy. So, yeah, back to Live Action, just briefly. You're the founder, is Lila Rose and she's still the leader of the organization Mm-hmm, yeah, and she. If you don't pay attention to Lila, or just Live Action on social media, I really encourage you to do that. It's amazing. I think the posts that I see are some just they're just so powerful and poignant. I just want to really give a lot of credit to you, sammy, and your team for the work that you're doing. I think it's really powerful, and Live Action in general just the work that Live Action is doing is really powerful. So, thank you, thank you, thanks for your service, your creativity and especially your focus on trying to reach the younger generation as well.
Sami Parker:So, yeah, thank you.
Scott Allen:Sammy, I think the last time we talked to you was right before the momentous decision of the Supreme Court that overturned Roe versus Wade and sent the question of the legality of abortion back to the States, which you know. At that time we just all rejoiced. I remember just being so thrilled because it was such a stain on our country that you know this. You know this immoral law was imposed on all States and on everyone else.
Scott Allen:Obviously, abortion wasn't overturned when that decision happened. It was pushed back to the States. Each state could make their own determination on these questions, so it put it back closer to the people. It was really taken out of the hands of everyday American citizens. Now it was much more close to them in the States. I'd love to hear your thoughts on how do you see things following that decision, that Supreme Court decision, and your sense of what's happening right now with the pro-life movement, because you know I'm an observer from the outside and you know have seen some things that have concerned me. But I would love to just hear your insider's thoughts on some of these changes that have happened since the overturning of Roe v Wade.
Sami Parker:Yeah, I think that a good amount of pro-lifers were a little bit blindsided by what the overturn of Roe v Wade meant. It was a huge, like you said, a huge victory, huge victory and in pro-life States. So many babies are being saved In Alabama actually just yesterday.
Sami Parker:I think it was in their state constitution. They declared that babies created via IVF, so embryos, are human beings and that they deserve legal protection. So pro-life States are doing incredibly. Babies in pro-life States are protected in almost all circumstances not enough circumstances, but almost all of them and, like I just said, alabama states like that are doing fantastic.
Sami Parker:But I don't know that enough people considered how damaging the overturn of Roe v Wade would be in states that were pro-abortion and I think a lot of people were blindsided, unfortunately, by that.
Sami Parker:Again, it's not like I would say Roe v Wade should be back, absolutely not. It was a huge victory, but it was kind of just the beginning of all of our work, all of our groundwork. And so in states that promote the destruction of babies or encourage or enable it via abortion, it's gotten pretty bad and like I don't know if you know what happened in Ohio, but they essentially enshrined abortion into their constitution and now a lot of states are following that lead. It's on track to happen this year in Florida, missouri, arkansas, north Dakota. So even some states that we would think would be pro-life people are really pushing for abortion to be enshrined in their constitution, which happens by just gathering a lot of signatures from people. So pro-abortion advocates and obviously the abortion lobby is super funded. They have so much money and so people are really moving, people are activated and they're doing as much as they can to ensure abortion on demand up until the moment of birth. So it's pretty. It's pretty drastic and horrible in pro-abortion states.
Scott Allen:Is Sammy? Just some more background on that. So you're saying states. You mentioned some states that surprised me. I was aware that this happened in Ohio. That was a bit surprising because I tend to think of Ohio as a bit conservative on these issues and in Ohio the legislation or the constitution was changed at the state level. Was it a mirror of Roe v Wade? I mean essentially a license for abortion up to the moment of birth in Ohio.
Sami Parker:No, no, I think in Ohio it has been legal up until 22 weeks. I don't know the specifics per state, but Roe v Wade really released all of the Roe v Wade. It was kind of a viability law, viability rule for Roe v Wade, and now there's just really no, there's no rules. Yeah, it's kind of states can do whatever they want, which is great for pro-life states, but for pro-abortion states it's pretty bad.
Scott Allen:And how many states can you give me just a general kind of? I'm not looking for super specific numbers here, but just general, like how many states would you consider to be pro-life states and how many would you consider to be pro-abortion? And is there a third category of some? You know some group of states that are in the middle there, or how would you? How do you see the lay of the land there now that it's back at the level of the states?
Sami Parker:Well, it's hard because pro-life states, the ones that even claim themselves as pro-life states, aren't necessarily pro-life. There's Oklahoma is one of the most pro-life states that I know, meaning that's very hard to get an abortion in Oklahoma. Almost all babies are protected from abortion in Oklahoma and Alabama, but some pro-life states allow for a lot of exceptions and so I wouldn't necessarily consider that pro-life. It just it depends what people even mean by pro-life, what words people use.
Sami Parker:As for exact numbers like I said, it's kind of hard to tell because it depends what they mean by that, but Goumacher Institute has pretty reliable information on it, although they're very pro-abortion, so you can look there for more information on specific state issues.
Dwight Vogt:I have a question how is your strategy changed then with this onslaught and the pro-life states and the abortion states? What are you doing different to try to stem the flow?
Sami Parker:We're doing a lot more statewide legislative work. I'm not all that involved in that kind of department but I know that the branch of live action that is involved in that is working really hard to. It's primarily just an issue of awareness. I think so many pro-lifers are kind of blindsided and pro-choicers about different abortion policies going on in their states. And then it kind of just happens, if they have enough pro-abortion activists to do the work and keep it kind of under the sheets, it'll slip under a lot of pro-lifers' noses and we won't even recognize it until it's almost too late to stop what's going on. And so a lot of what we do in general is awareness. But now it seems that we're trying very hard to. In Ohio we worked really hard to make people in Ohio specifically know about what was going on.
Scott Allen:And yet we lost that battle in Ohio, right I?
Scott Allen:mean it seems to me that at the state level, now that we're kind of fighting this out at the state level, that we are not having a ton of success, the other side seems to be playing the game better, the political game better. Maybe it's their money, I don't know what they seem to be winning, and when I listen to their argument, they basically are painting pro-lifers as extremists, as is their want. I feel like on our side, though, we're just it seems like we're a bit flat-footed. What are your thoughts on that?
Sami Parker:Well, I think a lot of it is that lies have never been more potent or more prevalent and right now, specifically, the abortion industry and the abortion media, which is just all of it at this point, is really being very manipulative and cases like Kate Cox. I don't know if you know about the Kate Cox case. Essentially she I don't believe she's pregnant anymore. She was a pregnant woman who had a baby that was diagnosed with trisomy 18, I believe it was and the media used her story, propped her up as the reason why all these pro-life laws are so horrible, because Kate Cox supposedly needed a medically necessary abortion. That's what they considered it that it was medically necessary because it put future fertility at risk, because she was going to have a C-section with this baby and so it would cause a future fertility risk for her future children if she could not have her current baby with a disability killed by abortion.
Sami Parker:But media and the abortion lobby is able to paint these pictures in such a manipulative way that made it sound like the Kate Cox story was some, like it was tragic because her baby had a disability and that's very hard and there's so many different nuances and struggles that come with that but they just made her look like this woman who was being held back by all of the evil pro-lifers, because the pro-lifer said you don't need to kill your baby.
Sami Parker:It's not medically necessary for you to kill your baby just because she has a disability. She was in Texas I didn't mention that so she couldn't have an abortion for her daughter, and so there's a lot of really potent lies and it's just everybody's on social media, everybody's online, and not many people take the time to really read through what a story is talking about and question the narrative that's being pushed by it. So I think a lot of people are just being swayed by really, really emotionally charged stories like this one in particular and other ones similar to it to think that this pro-life side is just so extreme, and so we should probably just go end up on the pro-choice side, even though most pro-choicers have no idea how extreme their side is too, and the politicians that represent them.
Luke Allen:Hi friends, thanks again for joining us today On this topic of life, family and sexuality.
Luke Allen:I'd like to direct your attention towards our very own Derra Miller's newest book, the Grand Design Rediscovering Male and Female in the Image of God.
Luke Allen:To sum up why this book is important, let me read one of its endorsements from our friend Nancy Piercy, author of Love Thy Body and the Toxic War on Masculinity, quote Derra Miller has worked in sexist cultures where women are devalued and treated as little more than servants for men, and he has worked in western feminist cultures where women are often expected to function like men and their uniqueness as women is still devalued. In the Grand Design, derra offers a healing biblical vision where men and women reflect the relationship within the trinity of unity without uniformity and diversity without superiority. So that's just a sneak peek, but if you'd like to learn more about the Grand Design, make sure to head to the episode page which is linked in the show notes, which contains everything you need to know about where to find the book, how you can help us share it and where you can leave a review. And again, that is the Grand Design Rediscovering Male and Female in the Image of God by Derra Miller.
Scott Allen:Yeah, on that last point, Sammy, it seems to me that the tables could be turned and I know we don't have the money and the big media and all of that to amplify our voice in the way the other side does, but they've done an effective job through stories like that, you know, of painting us as extremists and it seems like that's where they're gaining ground.
Scott Allen:And yet it's really them that are extreme.
Scott Allen:And because it seems to me most Americans, if you, you know, in general, don't support that extreme kind of position on abortion, you know, all the way up to birth for any reason, at taxpayer, you know, taxpayer expense, even in some cases beyond, you know, birth.
Scott Allen:That's which is the position that these that the pro, you know, abortion people are basically promoting right now. It's very extreme but we haven't been able to turn the tables, it seems like, very effectively on them and because it seems like if we could, that you know the American people aren't there right, I mean by and large, that extreme position wouldn't get a lot of support. You know, now they're not going to go all the way back, they being the American people in general, all the way back to, you know, no abortions, you know, for any reason either, and it seems like politically we have to kind of chart out something between those which is an ideal. You know, obviously for Christians we want no abortions, you know. But politically you know that's not going to work. What are your thoughts just on why we haven't been able to, to show the extreme, you know, this is what's frustrating to me.
Scott Allen:I'm like no, your position is super extreme but we're not getting that across.
Sami Parker:Yeah, that's honestly one of the more positive things that I was planning to bring up was that I do. I don't have any proof of this, necessarily, but I do sense more especially young pro-lifers taking more of an offensive position on the abortion debate rather than the defense, like we should always be prepared to present the case for life, present it gently, present it truthfully, present it in a beautiful way, because it is beautiful by nature. But I think a lot more pro-lifers are becoming aware that we aren't the extreme party like that's what we're trying to be painted as very, very strongly.
Sami Parker:but we don't need to be timidly explaining why killing innocent human children is like morally revolting it's, and I think more young people are coming, not necessarily only young, but that's what what I see more of. I think more of us are deciding that we're not extreme for that, Like you, pro-abortion person, are the extreme one. You. The onus is on you essentially to explain to me why it is morally positive, it's morally permissible, to kill thousands of innocent human children every single day in our country, with no limits, exactly, and at taxpayer expense, right?
Scott Allen:You know, I'm, as you know, living in Oregon now and it's just galling. You know that some of my taxpayer money each month now goes to pay for this. You know, it's, it's, it's, it's so grievous, honestly it's I hate even to think about it.
Darrow Miller:This question that we're talking about. Well, the discussion we're talking has raises a question. We call it extreme, but for the pro-abortion it's not extreme and we're operating from two different cultures, two different paradigms. And when you point the finger and say, well, this is extreme, no, it's not. You're the ones that are extreme because you haven't dealt with it on a cultural level. You said something a minute ago, Sammy, that I want to connect back to.
Darrow Miller:A lot of younger people see the need to go on the offensive, and I read an article a few months ago and we've talked a little bit around this in the office by a guy named Nathan Stone. Are you familiar with him? He wrote an article that began by talking about post-Rowe versus Wade. There's more abortions that have taken place in the country than before Rowe versus Wade Because of what you've described. It's going on in the pro-death states and I say it that way. It's a pro-death state, it's not pro-choice, it's pro-death.
Darrow Miller:And he says that we need to think about the symbols that we're using and we need to take into account at this moment in our history. Again, this is talking coming out of an abortion context. We need to learn from three symbols or have three symbols. The first is we live in a wasteland. We don't live in this nice, it's a moral and spiritual wasteland. And second, the demonic inhabits the wasteland. There's evil. That's real, it's not just Harry Ferry, Satan is real, he inhabits the wasteland and he is doing what he's doing.
Darrow Miller:And the third thing he said we need to realize that when Christ conquered death and conquered Satan, he became the warrior king, the lion of Judah. And Ston is saying we need to have those things in mind as we engage in what's going on in our culture today. And I'd never seen anyone write like that, but it caught my attention. And when you said young people today are being more on the offense, I thought, well, that's what Nathan Stone's talking about. Christ is the victor over death and over Satan. And he may have gone to the cross as the Lamb of God, but he came off the cross as the lion of Judah. And that we need to be in our minds in a different position, in our place in our minds, and we need to function from that position in a different way. So let me just get your take on that.
Sami Parker:I think that's a really beautiful visualization of it to remind us I mean especially Christians. I don't know that secular pro-lifers would necessarily feel that it's applicable to them, although it is. I think it's a really important thing to remember that. I think it points to the sacred secular divide that it's, that that's not a thing. We live in a spiritual world in every aspect. And we have to remember that, especially for things like abortion.
Darrow Miller:Yes.
Dwight Vogt:I'm going back to my other question because I'd like to ask it again in a different way that Sammy has because of the change? It's not the change. Yeah, there's more and more division on this issue than there was even a year ago. It's getting stronger by the day. So what are you doing in terms of messaging? Do you just say the same thing louder and more often, or are you picking up different themes? Are there other topics? Is there another approach? What are you doing strategically to try to get a message that will resonate, not just with the pro-life side, but with the pro-abortion side?
Sami Parker:Yeah, I think it's both, that we are just saying the same thing over again, louder and more often. But I do. I mean, I haven't been with live action for a super long time.
Sami Parker:I also haven't been in the pro-life movement for a very long time, but I do feel like, even just within the last year, we have become more strategic in Formational education, maybe the best way to put it Just thinking about the issue of life and the value of life in aspects other than abortion, because people have such a hard time separating their own opinions and others opinions on abortion. Thank you, but there's other things we can talk about that can kind of help people realize how to be consistent in our life ethics. For example, we have started talking a little bit more about IVF, which has made a lot of pro-lifers very upset, because I don't mean to sound blunt, but I don't think most pro-lifers have taken the time to consider how morally inconsistent it is to support IVF and the against abortion.
Sami Parker:Right, which is the creation of human embryos that typically are just frozen indefinitely, which are the human lives, or they're destroyed, like the vast majority of embryos that are created, are destroyed or die in the IVF process. Or there's selective abortions, if multiple embryos are implanted at one time, and so something that we've been doing a little bit more recently is talking about more issues within the life discussion. That kind of helps people understand that it's more than abortion.
Sami Parker:It's how we are envisioning how we are deciding that, what the life issue comes down to and how to be consistent in a pro-life worldview, because that's something that pro-abortion people are able to point out. I've seen comments of it. How do you support IVF? How do you support surrogacy? How do you support the fertility industry? That is a multi-million, if not billion dollar industry, created on largely the disposal of human children, human beings, but you are against abortion, and so we have to be very consistent in how we value life, and that also helps people understand more of the difficult cases for abortion. When we say that the child conceived in rape is just as important as the child conceived through consensual sex, people understand that and they believe that because they also see that the pro-life movement is saying well, so is the child created by IVF, so is the child created by surrogacy commodified by surrogacy, and so it's a lot more formational work to answer your question, do I?
Dwight Vogt:Interesting.
Scott Allen:I'm so glad we're talking about this because it touches on what Dara was mentioning as well, this broader story, if you will, that we're dealing with here. You've got two stories, and when I talk about story here I'm talking about worldview, but it essentially functions as a story On the side of pro-death or pro-abortion. The story goes something like this there is no God, human life is a product of a purposeless process of evolution. And then you add to that people like Freud who came along and said that so much of the things that are wrong in this world can be traced to sexual repression. And so we have to have full sexual expression to be self-actualized and live a good life.
Scott Allen:Then you add on to that the chapter that Margaret Sanger wrote that our salvation comes through sex and unlimited sex. And then we have to have some way of preventing births, because that's a barrier to this vision of unlimited sex. That is important for us to have a self-actualized life. And so we just take birth control. We don't think about it because that's important. And if we happen to get pregnant, then there's always abortion, and abortion is essentially necessary in this story. We need it. So that's one story and that's the story. I'm not laughing because it's tragic. That's the story that so many Americans live in. That is their story.
Darrow Miller:It's the dominant story of American culture today, and people might not be thinking about it consciously, but that is the dominant story.
Scott Allen:Now Christians, let's say Christians, we reject this. This is a false story. This is a demonic story. It's a lie. God exists. Human beings are created in His image with inherent dignity and worth, from the very moment of conception until natural death. Their lives need to be protected. They have purpose, they have dignity.
Scott Allen:Sex is never meant to be in any way decoupled from procreation and from family formation, and these are all institutions that God created to disciple nations, right to bless nations, and it should cause us to think carefully and critically about birth control, about all these things.
Scott Allen:That and this is my point here, sammy is I don't think Christians were not consistent on our side with our own story, right, we kind of we actually pick up on the sexual side, I think, a lot from this dominant story that's out there that's deadly and damaging. I don't know if we know our story very well, and yet on this one issue of abortion, we're supposed to be pro-life, right? So, yeah, okay, we're supposed to be pro-life, but it only makes sense within this larger story, right? And so this is. I'd like your thoughts on this, because I wonder how we begin to change, even starting in the church, just with our own people, this knowledge of our story over and against this other story, right? This other story that not only enables abortion but makes it essential, you know, essential health care is literally what it's described as in this story. It's essential health care, right? I mean, it's just even hard to say that.
Sami Parker:Yeah, I think a lot of it. I mean, my answer is always going to be that I think a lot of it is awareness and education because, like you said, we're not even aware. I wasn't even when I started working with live action. Maybe they wouldn't want me to say this, but when I started working with live action I don't even know that my life ethic was all that consistent, because I didn't quite see the issue with IVF yet, and I didn't. This was when I was a contractor I was not a full-time staff, but I didn't necessarily see the issue with surrogacy and I didn't know the story behind birth control. I didn't know that there was an alternative to birth control. The church that I was raised in never spoke of it. We weren't that deep formationally.
Scott Allen:No, it doesn't get talked about.
Sami Parker:No, it doesn't, it doesn't, and so I think so much of it is just awareness. That's something that I've started to talk more about on my own personal platform, but live action has as well, just talking about what birth control can actually do, that it can be a board of patient, which is mind-blowing for a lot of pro-lifers to hear myself included. I remember hearing that but I think so much of it is just that we need people to know. We just need people to understand how to draw these kinds of conclusions themselves, kind of just teach people how to think about these kinds of issues and think deeper about them.
Luke Allen:Yeah, just to piggyback off that. I think that can sound daunting at first. I need to understand every single one of these issues and how it plays out in my life.
Luke Allen:That's a lot of homework, but I think you know there's a shortcut there and it's that all these consequences we're talking about here all stem from this, these same core ideas, and that's why that kind of story analogy helps. Here is cause those core ideas. If you can understand those and the thinkers behind that, then you can clearly see that so many of these consequences that we're experiencing today come from those same roots. Consequences, like you know abortion on demand, that's obvious. Birth control, the hookup culture, pornography, homosexuality, the whole LGBTQ rainbow.
Scott Allen:This is the wasteland, luke, that you're describing right now, that Dara was talking about. The sexual revolution has literally left us in a wasteland. It's true, yeah, Go ahead, and sorry to cut you off.
Luke Allen:Yeah, no, you're fine. But yeah, all these things are connected and we don't see it that way. We just pick apart one at a time.
Luke Allen:And if you can understand, yeah, this core ideas again.
Luke Allen:Then the ideas have consequences and you can see that in your culture and you can say, okay, do I want to live in a culture where all these things are true, because they all go together, or do I want to live in a culture that is completely different? And and then what I like to do is just line up that different culture, god's story, the true story, the one that leads to freedom and human flourishing, and it's essentially the opposite. I mean, these two worldviews are completely different, mainly because one starts without God and one does, um, but also just the fact that one sees humans in a completely different way than God does. We're not image bearers of God, we're just animals, you know, we just have our sexual reproductive urges, just like animals, and we have to live that out, and if we don't, we're hurting ourselves, whereas the other one sees us, as you know, beautiful, uh, creations of God that um have a job to do and a way to live, in a way to live that actually works in reality, and that's beautiful when that leads to families and leads to kids, and it's, it's a beautiful story, um, and I love the way that live action, like you were saying, it has started using that kind of messaging of we should.
Luke Allen:We should talk about abortion, but we should also talk about what it hinders, and it hinders families. It hinders, you know, those newborns and those toddlers and the. You know all the beauty that comes from families and that's what you're getting in the way of and we need to protect that, because of you know the beauty that it is.
Luke Allen:Yeah, I'm getting carried away here, but I just to me when I started understanding these things as you know, ideas have consequences in that, in that way, it started making so much sense and it didn't feel like as much homework of. I need to understand every single argument and I need to know every debate and all the stats and everything, but if I can just present God's story and compare it to any other story out there, it's always going to be able to stand its ground because it's the one that actually works in reality.
Scott Allen:I think you had a question right before Luke was going to go, or a comment. Did you want to come back on that?
Darrow Miller:I have both a question and a comment. So where we want to go? The uh, what I was thinking earlier and again that, sammy, this came from you, as you were describing your own life and your church experience and what you knew and didn't know and made me think, uh, you know somebody, especially somebody growing up in the church or living in the church today. You go to church on Sunday and the pastor has 50 weeks a year to teach. And yet the church today doesn't understand something as basic as we're talking about.
Darrow Miller:And I had a con discussion with somebody a few weeks ago over the concept of work, the biblical concept of work. And people go to church on Sundays, they go to Bible studies, but they don't have a biblical concept of work. It's just a job and I put my time in and I get my money. And how do we challenge the church, challenge pastors, equip the pastors to tell the whole story so that people sitting in the pews and going to Bible studies they're not just getting fed religious stuff, they're, they're learning the whole story, so that, in fact, in some of those states that we think, oh, they're more conservative but then they end up not being pro-life in the end, well, why? Because they don't know the whole story. So how do we encourage people, pastors who day in and or week in and week out, have an audience to tell the story?
Sami Parker:I think there's a lot of ways that we could go about it strategically, but it seems to me like it's an issue of dualism, maybe teaching people that it's not about. It's not. There's not a body person divide. We are. We are one body and person. There's not a sacred, secular divide. Every single aspect of our lives needs to be infiltrated with our faith and equipped with our faith. So I think that is just that's got to be the foundation of it. From what I can see is just defeating dualism from every single degree.
Scott Allen:Yeah, yeah, I think it's funny, sammy we're asking you how do we fix this problem in the church, where they don't think with the biblical worldview? And I'm thinking, actually, guys, that's our, I think that's our job. Should Sammy is supposed to be asking us that question, what are you guys doing to change that? You know, and here we are bugging her about that. So you gave the right answer, though.
Luke Allen:Sammy, we should go do that Great. That's good to know we all need good advice, but but the dualism.
Scott Allen:just so people don't misunderstand that you know it it what it does for evangelicals is that, you know, we don't think you know, in terms of this big story or this big narrative creation, fall, redemption, consummation this, this true story that we all live in, that gives meaning to all of the things that we all live in. And what we do as the Christians is we narrow, kind of, our message down or our focus down to, you know, an aspect of the story that's critical. Obviously, you know people need to know Jesus, they need to be saved and they need to go to church and you know these kinds of things. But we're not telling a whole story that makes sense of those things. And when we don't do that, see, we all.
Scott Allen:This is, this is where we're talking about. You know, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the. This is this is where Jordan Peterson has been so helpful and true. He's like we all live in stories and those stories make sense of our lives. So the church isn't telling that story to its people and they don't know that story, that big story. It's not like they don't have a story that makes sense of their lives, they just borrow the one that's out there in the dominant culture. As Dero said this is the one that's in the dominant culture, it's not the biblical story, it's this story that empowers this, you know, wasteland of the sexual revolution and makes abortion essential health care. We borrow that or, you know, somehow we kind of live in between these two stories and it doesn't make sense.
Darrow Miller:And we don't see that the story of the cultural story we live in now is a wasteland. It's, it's pro-death, it's it's a wasteland, it's a lawless. But we don't see it that way. We just look at all the glitz and glamour and the mall and what we see on TV and everything's going along fine. And that's, I think, where Nathan Stone is so powerful. Hey, no, let's recognize we are living in a wasteland and Christians are living in that moral and spiritual wasteland too. They just don't recognize it because they they go to church and they're happy with with life.
Luke Allen:Yeah, I saw the George Barna. We're going to have him on the show soon. He does these worldview analysis of the US every year. I saw it came out yesterday and it said 90, it was something in the 90s, I think it was 96,. 98% of Americans have a syncretistic worldview, which essentially just means you have multiple worldviews combating for your mind.
Scott Allen:You don't have one consistent story. You're kind of borrowing over here and borrowing over here from these different, mutually exclusive stories. Yeah, go ahead, luke.
Luke Allen:Yeah, and then after that it was only 6% of Americans have a biblical worldview, a consistent biblical worldview, and what that says to me is there's this huge open playing field where there's a lot of people that have confused worldviews, that are not consistent and that haven't found one that actually makes sense for them. And then, on the other hand, it's like, wow, there's very few people with a biblical worldview, but that syncretistic crowd, a lot of them, you know, a lot of them even say they're Christians. You know, it's something like 74% of Americans say they're a Christian, but they don't live that out. They don't have a worldview that follows that. So to me it's this open.
Luke Allen:It's kind of like how can we, how can we speak into these people? They're waiting for a worldview that makes sense, excuse me, and what they're given from our culture because it's the predominant voice that you hear out there is this worldview that answers questions about abortion for them and it answers questions about marriage and about families and about dating. And a lot of those voices that are speaking to them in that, in that culture, are coming from worldviews that are Darwinistic, that are hedonistic, that are postmodern, and they answer at least those portions of their worldview from those voices, but what I don't see is the people that have a biblical worldview preaching the beauty of how all of these you know areas that I just mentioned marriage, you know marriage, sex families, sex families all that we're not preaching into the sacred, just a crowd, a story that's compelling enough for them to actually grasp onto.
Luke Allen:And I think it's not exactly the hardest. You know I'm not. I think this is quite doable because in a way, we all kind of know it, because we are image bearers of God. We know there's something wrong about killing kids. You know that's not exactly the worldview that we just default to, but if it's preached to us, since you know the time we're young, then yeah, we can have that type of worldview, I think. But in a way, because of, you know, common grace, we all know that there's something beautiful about families that you know stick together and have kids and those kids grow up in a healthy, under healthy marriage. So it's it's, it's like. It's like it is our. It is our default in a way, but we need to show that to people. The way it looked like you at something.
Dwight Vogt:I was. I was. You said we all know it's wrong to kill children, but I think the issue then is we just don't consider them children. They're not children until they're viable. They're not children until they can make decisions for themselves. They're not children until you we value them. If we value them, then they're children. So I think there's this ability in the, in our culture, to just be really confused on what it means to be human and why that's a good thing, and when people become human. And and there's so much because I do, I too I think I love the Lion King movie because there's these two stark pictures in that movie that I've still gotten my mind. One is the wasteland. You guys were talking about the wasteland, and there's that one where the you know the hyenas have taken over and the place is just destroyed.
Luke Allen:And then the next one is when the king takes his place and all the ones is just whoosh, you know.
Dwight Vogt:And you have this flowering water garden, you know. And how do we do that? How do we do that with the issue of life? How do we? How do we make human not just what we can say you're made in the image of God, but people go. What does that mean? You know what? What does that mean? How does that? But to really really understand what it means to be human and the glory of human that you wouldn't think of of not creating it and keeping it, you know it just. I don't know, I think it.
Sami Parker:It points back to calling out the false story and what that leads to like what, what? You were just saying a lot of people, a lot of pro abortion people, pro choice people, whatever they want to go by, have this false story that you have to be a human plus something else to qualify as a person worthy of equal human rights.
Sami Parker:And what we do is point out what that, what that consequence is of that idea or that false story, like what you guys do here day in and day out, and point to the fact that that, that worldview, that you have to be a human plus something else to qualify as a value human, a valuable human or as a person or whatever they they want to consider this human, what that points to, what that leads to, is things like slavery, things like the. Holocaust, slaves were considered people Right.
Scott Allen:Right, that's exactly the same morality or ethic that was behind slavery. In other words, if a person's worth and dignity aren't intrinsic from the time that they're born or conceived, then somebody is going to make some arbitrary decision on when that happens, when they're worthy Right, and that's exactly the ethic behind slavery. Right, Some slave owner says, no, you're not, you know, you're my property, Right? So, yeah, I think you're exactly right on that. We need to show the show, show that, make that really clear. Unless God gives us that some, you know, human being is going to draw some line arbitrarily and that's led to some of the worst, you know evils in our world. Right, you know, when people do that, right, Jews aren't human or whatever it is, you know.
Scott Allen:See, I mean I'd like to talk a little bit, just change the direction just a little bit, because you're in social media and I, you know, I always love to talk to people that do social media, because you're paying a lot of attention on what resonates, you know, and what people are watching clicks, views, what, what is what has surprised you, you know, in terms of some of the posts that you've put out there that get a lot of attention, that maybe you're like, wow, that was kind of neat, or I didn't expect that any any. You know just, you tend to have your finger on the pulse of where people are at in a way that I don't you know just because of the work I do, and I'd love to hear just any anything you have to say on that. You know what? What have you been putting out that has taken you by surprise in terms of the response?
Sami Parker:of late. Um, well, along with the whole talking about more life issues than just abortion, talking about things like birth control and the fertility industry and stuff like that, there's, of course, been negative pushback, but there's also been really I don't know interceptive feedback where pro lifers are in the comments saying oh I've never, I never considered that, I never considered to think about how that fertility industry does similarly to what the abortion industry does to children, at least in terms of where it places their value, and so I have.
Sami Parker:I have seen a good amount of good feedback and good response on that kind of stuff and I don't know people.
Sami Parker:Social media is full of people just looking for things to be angry about. So it's, it's, it's a it's. When we have a video or when I have a video going out, that's I don't want to say it's inflammatory, but it's something that I'm just presenting. One of the next horrible things that the abortion industry does. It's it's taken exactly as as I think it would be taken. People are enraged about it, people are mad about it and then it passes on. People aren't that mad about it anymore.
Sami Parker:But people also really like the beautiful stories and while they seem fewer and far between, I don't think they are. I just think that that's the stuff that doesn't go quite as viral, because people don't share that kind of stuff quite as often. It's not as it's not as quick to get clicks and likes and all that kind of stuff. But honestly, whenever we do share something beautiful and good, it gives me hope that most people are still also very receptive to that and love to hear those stories too, just to remind them of what we're doing, this for what it all points back to what, what the good story is.
Scott Allen:Sam, beyond social media, have you guys noticed you know the? You know we're kind of becoming much more aware of efforts to censor, you know social media algorithms that prevent views, that this is not just some kind of open and free, you know place where ideas can be freely shared, that this is kind of increasingly you know at least we're becoming aware, I am, anyways that this is a pretty moderated and controlled kind of environment. If you guys noticed that, what do you do to get around that? What are your thoughts on that?
Sami Parker:I'm not in the space so much of trying to get around censorship. That's more of ads and money behind things. But I think that's a really good thing to make people aware of that. Every time you are online most of the I would say every time the content that is being fed to you is heavily, heavily monitored and there's usually a narrative behind it. There's a narrative behind ours. It's just a good narrative, but behind a lot of content, a lot of media, a lot of seemingly harmless stuff is an evil narrative. So I think it's good for people to understand that. But yeah, I'm not all of that involved in trying to get around censorship in terms of ads and all that stuff.
Scott Allen:But I know some of the loop was our social media and you know I noticed that there's times where we put things out and you're like, you know, it just seems like it goes into a black hole.
Sami Parker:Yeah. So, yeah, that's definitely real.
Scott Allen:It's real.
Luke Allen:Yeah, we used to say social media was like the public square. It's not like the public square. It's not just this free floating area of free ideas and free speech. Not at all. It's a lot of it because of algorithms and the way they modify everything for everyone to show you what you think is interesting. It really is just a bunch of bubbles.
Luke Allen:And you're all just rotating in your little bubbles, and what's unfortunate about that is a lot of time when you have an amazing message like live action and you put out, there is a lot of times that's just not going to go in front of anyone that disagrees with it in a way. It's just going to go out there to people that are already in that bubble and that mostly agree with it. You know it can get beyond that, but it's, it's not, it's not the public square.
Sami Parker:Yeah, it's yeah. Before we used to, I used to post be the one posting to tick talk primarily, and almost every single time I would post a video. It would be under review for like before it even went public. It would be under review, which was crazy, almost every single time.
Luke Allen:Yeah, as we're talking about social media. I think at the beginning of this conversation, sammy, you were talking about how a lot of the abortion arguments are very emotionally charged and I think you know in the, in the world of social media, everything's, you know, short. You know we have the short attention spans. You got to capture people's attention right away. Emotion cell. You know they go far and quick and I think what I see on the pro abortion side is they know those emotional arguments and they know the ones that sell.
Luke Allen:You know, for young men, sexual liberty. You know, pursue it as far as you want, do whatever you want. That sells. For teenage men, you know young men. Or for women, you know the exact same story. Have, you know, sexual license, do whatever you want, and there's a backup plan and there's easy ways of cleaning up. You know a quote, unquote mess that you get into and we'll cover that. That's very emotional. Let's just go have fun. You know, party and enjoy your life. You know a terrible story, but it sells and it goes far. I don't see that. I don't see as much of that.
Luke Allen:I don't want to say that we should use emotional arguments, because we should use arguments that are founded in truth and God's truth. But you know there's a quote that says beauty is the gateway to goodness and truth. Beauty is more of an emotional way to reach people and we should be always pointing people towards the truth. But truth doesn't really sell as quickly on social media or in just our short attention span and era. So you need to kind of, you need to kind of present it in such a way that it can capture people's attention, and I think beauty and goodness they're both more emotional do a great job of capturing people's attention and then, from their point of the truth, that makes that thing beautiful.
Luke Allen:But just hopping on social media and giving an excellent debate that's very founded in facts and logic probably won't go as far as saying something that's, you know, more emotional but also very true is. You know? I saw a post not long ago I think it was from live action that showed a baby that was born a few weeks early preemie and then showing a law that said, you know, abortion up till birth. Well, that preemie, that cute little preemie, beautiful baby outside the mom's womb, you know that baby could have easily been aborted in that state, in states where it's up to the point of birth and that captures your attention.
Luke Allen:You see the cute baby. But then it's no. That baby's life was at risk in a lot of places in our country and just because it came out early it's safe, but it couldn't have been in this case and something like that. How have you? Yeah, I need to turn this into a question, I'm just ranting. How can we do a better job of going about that? In just the era of short attention spans, we need to use beauty more often, or goodness to lead into the truth of the way God created the world.
Sami Parker:Yeah, might be straightforward, but just presenting it. I mean, there's a reason that Planned Parenthood and abortion facilities really want to get around the mandate of showing women the ultrasound before they get an abortion, because the ultrasound exposes the truth and they'll zoom out as far as they can to make that baby look as tiny and insignificant as possible. But the truth of the matter is that women get off the table, not every time, but enough when they see the truth that there is their child inside of their womb. And so I don't know. This reminds me of something our pastor says, luke, that God doesn't need our help to decorate and fancy up the gospel message. We just need to present it. And similarly, I don't think we need to decorate and fancy up life.
Sami Parker:I think, we just need to present it. We just need to present the beauty of pregnancy and of birth and of fetal development. That's something that we've been working really hard with at Live Action is presenting human development with baby Olivia. If anybody listening doesn't know about baby Olivia, it's a medically accurate, animated depiction of fetal development in the womb. Similarly, we just released a web app called Window to the Womb, which shows the baby every single day of pregnancy a medically accurate depiction of what your baby looks like every single day. And that alone, that kind of content alone, will, I guess not alone, but heavily will do a lot of the work for us. All we have to do is present what the Lord has already given to us. That's so powerful Sammy.
Scott Allen:Where do people find that? I'd like to go look at that.
Sami Parker:Yeah, Window to the Womb. I think it's dot com. I should probably know. But Window to the Wombapp Excuse me, that's one of them. And then baby Olivia. Window to the Wombapp.
Scott Allen:Yeah, let's all go check that out, sammy, that's powerful good work, and good work to Live Action for doing that.
Scott Allen:I completely agree, and I do think that what we're saying here is so true that, even with all of the lies and all of the deception, there is just this deep knowledge that people have that human life is valuable and it's you know that I was reminded of that recently. I was reading this exchange that happened between a guy who was a biologist you know, kind of a hardcore Darwinian biologist and he was talking about his relationship to his own children and he made the comment that, you know, when I try hard enough, I can think of my children as robots, you know, or essentially because that's what they are in his worldview, you know. But he just you know, he kind of like spilled the beans by saying, yeah, I have to try hard to do that right, like I have to. My worldview doesn't really make sense of who I know. My kids are right, I don't actually treat them like robots because they're not robots, you know, even though his story, if you will, says that they are.
Scott Allen:You know and I think that's something we need to push into that this story that pro abortion people are telling isn't true, and we know it, like there's a level of knowledge to that and so you guys getting that out is so great, is there? You know? As we wrap up today, samir, are there anything else you want to say? And especially, I think, for people like me that really want to be doing all I can at this critical moment, you know, to throw any kind of small weight that I have behind the pro life cause, what can we be doing? What's your charge for us that want to be active and doing what we can right now?
Sami Parker:Yeah, I think for everybody it's you should pray, ask the Lord to strengthen your pro life conviction and lead you in how he wants to use you, because there's a lot of different things you can do. Now there's social media, which is what I do, but there's certainly so much more like with what Mr Miller has done in his past in helping to end abortion in America, and, of course, all of you guys. But there's I mean, there's a lot of different things. The most I don't know forefront is to make sure you're voting, make sure you're aware of what's going on in your state.
Scott Allen:Let me just underscore that At a minimum. I'm still stunned by how many evangelicals don't vote. Vote, oh my gosh. I mean, this is a battle state by state. Do you know what's happening in your state and are you gonna vote? That's the minimal bar you know, and I don't wanna hear that. Oh, we're not supposed to get involved in politics. Please spare me. Anyway, sorry, I don't wanna rant. Go back to you, sammy.
Scott Allen:A lot of ranting today, a lot of ranting, no, but just when you say vote, yeah, vote, know what's happening in your state and at a minimum vote.
Sami Parker:Go ahead.
Scott Allen:What's the rest of the list? I?
Sami Parker:don't know. Be involved in your state and be involved in your community. Make sure your church is one that post-abord of women can come to to fund healing and help, and make sure that your church is one that desperate pregnant mothers can also come to for help so that they will have everything that they need to embrace the life of their child. If your church isn't that place yet, make it so. There are so many different ministries the churches can use, or you can create your own to make it a welcoming place to pregnant mothers or parenting mothers or post-abord of women. Sidewalk counseling is a huge one. There are abortion facilities all over the place that you can go out to and pray outside of and offer women love and support. Yeah, and then I don't know, back to the whole conversation that we have just live your life in a way that displays what is beautiful and what is good, what's true, get married, have children down to the most formational, foundational, important things yeah, yeah, live out this story.
Scott Allen:It's the true story. So you live in that fully, yeah, team. As we wrap up, we'll open the floor to any final comments or thoughts that you guys have as well. Thanks, sammy Daryl Dwight Luke.
Darrow Miller:Well, the question I have, but we don't have time for it at this point, but I'd love to hear from your perspective, sammy how do we bring the language of life into a culture of death? That seems to be the challenge. It's one thing to speak the language of life to Christians, but this battle is it's raging in our country and we've asked how do we bring truth and beauty and the question is, what language do we use to speak into a culture of death that draws people? So when you have that figured out, let us know and we'll have another discussion.
Sami Parker:Yeah, my answer on that is just getting rid of euphemisms, start calling things what they are. When you can call abortion what it is. It's the killing of an innocent human child. Call. Don't call an abortion clinic a clinic. It's a facility. It's a death facility. It's not a place where you get help. Don't call abortion Doctors, doctors. They're abortionists, they're killers. Yeah that's my quick answer.
Darrow Miller:Stop using euphemisms. Good place to start.
Scott Allen:Boy really powerful. We talk so much here, sammy, about the power of words, and words do shape our thinking and our culture. They're just the words we use are more powerful than we think and we realize. And that's what you're raising here the words that we use. Even around this issue, that vocabulary is being set by the pro-death, the abortion industry, and we're using those words. We need to stop. So that's a really practical, very simple thing that people can do and I think you're right about that having a bigger impact than people realize.
Sami Parker:Definitely yeah, language is cunning and that's what the abortion is.
Scott Allen:You got a nice little list there of it's not an abortion facility, it's clinic.
Sami Parker:Not a clinic. It is a facility.
Scott Allen:It's not a clinic, yeah, and they're not doctors, they're abortionists. Is there a place we can go to, kind of because I wouldn't even mind kind of doing that myself, just going? Okay, I gotta stop saying that.
Sami Parker:Yeah, like a little dictionary.
Luke Allen:That'd be cool.
Sami Parker:There should be. I don't know that there is one. All right, that's your job, Come on.
Scott Allen:Sammy, make that list, don't say this say this or whatever it is. Because this is true and this is a euphemism or a lie.
Darrow Miller:Stop using euphemisms. Yeah, yeah, stop using euphemisms.
Luke Allen:It's really good, it's not reproductive freedom.
Sami Parker:Right yeah, maybe I'll get on that, I'll get on that quick.
Scott Allen:No, that would be really actually, honestly, really, I think, very helpful, I would use it and I would encourage everyone to use it and remind people that this is we kind of think oh, words doesn't matter, it matters. It really matters way more than you think.
Darrow Miller:And especially when we've adopted the language of the culture of death ourselves and we don't even think about it, we just use their words Exactly.
Dwight Vogt:Yeah, dwight, nothing, oh really Nothing to add this has been really interesting, really good, really helpful. It has Sammy. Thank you, sammy.
Scott Allen:I wanna thank you yeah, thank you for your work, sammy, your ministry, thank you for live action Boy. You guys are on the front lines and the issue is not a small one. I'm constantly reminded of the fact we like to look back and we say how could the Holocaust have happened? These Christians just didn't get involved and allowed that to happen. Or slavery, or these horrific things that have happened in the past. And yet when you look at the number of deaths, we're living in the worst of it now On our watch, right. That always kinda radicalizes me, like this is happening now on my watch. What am I doing? Am I doing enough? And you guys are right on the front lines, and so, thank you, it's vital what you do. How do people go to live action? What's the best way to help support the work of live action, sammy? What's the website?
Sami Parker:again, Liveactionorg is where you can go to find all of our stuff. We're all of social media. It's also liveactionorg. There's not a dot for social media handles, but we're all over the internet, yeah.
Scott Allen:Awesome. We'll keep it up and please just tell Lila how much we appreciate her and her courage and her convictions and her just clarity. We're just so grateful for her and for the movement that she started here. So.
Sami Parker:Thank you guys as well.
Scott Allen:All right. Well, thank you for listening as well to another episode of Ideas have Consequences. We have our marching orders, guys. We know what we're supposed to do. Let's do it. This is our time.
Luke Allen:Thank you for listening to this episode with Sammy Parker. As always, if you enjoyed the discussion, don't let that great momentum stop here. Like Sammy was saying, there are so many ways that you can join this fight against what I see as the greatest injustice of our time. If you'd like to learn more about any of the resources that Sammy mentioned during the discussion, make sure to head to this episode's landing page on our website, disciplenationsorg, which is linked in the show notes. On that page, you'll find links to the Window in the Womb app, as well as more about live action, including where to find them on the socials, ways to locate your local pregnancy resource center, which I'm sure would love to have your support, and, finally, more information about Daryl Miller's newest book, the Grand Design of Rediscovering Male and Female in the Image of God, which I mentioned during the commercial.
Luke Allen:Ideas have Consequences is brought to you by the Disciple Nations Alliance. To learn more about our ministry, you can find us on Instagram, facebook and YouTube, or on our website, which is disciplenationsorg. Thanks again for joining us. Please share the show with a friend and we hope you're able to join us here next week. On Ideas have Consequences. Wär idea ɪǎn 캎i Node Pewasaki.